Compulsory annual driving skills tests for the over 70's

p90fool

Danny1969 said:

Personally I think everyone should be made to stop driving at 60 

Even though we won't be allowed to stop working until we're 75? How are we going to get there?

strtdv

I had to stop an elderly lady driving as she couldn't turn her head to the right or left due to arthritis. She couldn't really explain what she did at a T junction or roundabout..

LuttiS

There are regular tailbacks along the express way on my way to work.. it's a 2 lane road and way more often then not it's due to 1 car going at 35-40mph and all the HGVs and morning commute traffic having to squeeze into the outside lane to overtake. When it's my turn to pass this car and give them the evil eye, it is always an older driver. In these scenarios there are many near misses as people suddenly brake when catching up to him at 70mph+ and then swerving into the outer lane.. 

thecolourbox

ToneControl said:

phil_b said:

 

by ICBM's logic, no one should be allowed to drive until they are 30

Not the same logic. The reasons for 80+ drivers having accidents is very different than for under 30s

stickyfiddle

+1 for retesting *everyone* every 5 - 10 years. There are plenty of pensioners who are still great drivers, but it's absurd that someone can have qualified in the 1960s and still be driving today without ever having been re-checked. 

Philly_Q

My dad was still driving at 83 going on 84, when he was diagnosed with Alzheimer's.  His driving had definitely worsened in the years prior to that, the car(s) had had a lot of bumps and scrapes - nothing serious, thankfully - and his insurance cost an absolute fortune. 

We were just at the point where he would have to give up and surrender his licence, unless by some miracle he was able to pass an assessment, but the decision was never made as his health declined dramatically after a fall at home and unfortunately he's no longer with us.

From a different perspective, I'm a non-driver.  I took 4 tests in my early 20s, didn't pass, got pissed off and gave up.  Then I moved into London and never bothered with it again as I use public transport.  I have got vague ideas of moving out of London when I retire (if that ever happens) but I imagine that would make travel a problem.  Reading this thread, is it realistic to think I, or anyone, could learn to drive at 60+?

Danny1969

p90fool said:

Danny1969 said:

Personally I think everyone should be made to stop driving at 60 

Even though we won't be allowed to stop working until we're 75? How are we going to get there?

Dunno mate, get on our bikes I spose.

Like I said not a popular decision and one that will affect me in 10 years but what's the alternative .... eventually the traffic around areas like London will be so dense it probably will be quicker to walk. Certainly that's true for parts of Los Angela's in rush hours now and we're not far behind in London

p90fool

Danny1969 said:

p90fool said:

Danny1969 said:

Personally I think everyone should be made to stop driving at 60 

Even though we won't be allowed to stop working until we're 75? How are we going to get there?

Dunno mate, get on our bikes I spose.

Like I said not a popular decision and one that will affect me in 10 years but what's the alternative .... eventually the traffic around areas like London will be so dense it probably will be quicker to walk. Certainly that's true for parts of Los Angela's in rush hours now and we're not far behind in London

Well I've said it elsewhere, but banning this keen, fit runner/cyclist/guitarist/sound engineer from working or playing in a band in five years time because a city 200 miles away is snarled up with traffic is not exactly a vote winner. 

I would have no objection to being tested and neither would my highly skilled motorcycle instructor wife, but I think an automatic ban at the beginning of our statistically safest driving decade would be bizarre.  

breakstuff

I stopped driving around four months ago as I was suffering from a compressed spinal chord and had lost about 50% function in my right hand and severe weakness in both legs. I recognised one day that I was struggling and decided that was best to stop until I was better. Luckily my wife drives, so I was still able to get round, but while I'm off work, and on my own during the day I do find it hard not to be able to just jump in the car and go wherever I want. I've since had an operation to reverse my symptoms and in the last week have driven a couple of times and felt almost back to normal. Having had this experience, I do realise how hard it must be to have to surrender your licence, due to the freedom driving affords you, especially if you're on your own and don't have anyone else to drive you around, however you should still be able to recognise when a failing body is putting yourself and others in danger and take the appropriate measures. 

ourmaninthenorth

I've been driving almost 40 years, every year it gets incrementally more difficult as my faculties incrementally deteriorate. 

I'll chuck it in when I consider myself dangerous, the only thing on the increase in my middle age is the awareness of how fooked I'm going to be in another 10 years time.  

Fretwired

Everyone over a certain age should have a compulsory eye/mobility test (human MOT) and doctors should report people to the DVLA if they have any condition likely to impair their driving - such as Altzimers, mobility issues which restrict movement (such as the ability to turn their head sufficiently) etc.

That said all my neighbours are over 60 (as am I) and they all drive pretty well so a cut-off age of 60 is not really on. Public transport where I live is pretty non-existant.

crunchman

For anyone currently under 60, driverless cars are likely to come to the rescue.  They aren't as optimistic about when they will arrive as they once were, but they still likely to be on the roads within 10 years.

ICBM

I fully understand that there are a few over-80s who can drive safely, but in my opinion they are likely to be the exception not the rule.

It's important to realise that the graph above is for death rate per million *population*, not per million *drivers* - that makes the over-80s far worse, since the population over that age, and the numbers driving even among those, is much lower than for the other age decades. It's also just for the drivers, and not for whoever else they might kill. That may apply to the 70-79 decade as well, where there is clearly a huge jump in the death rate.

BeardyAndy

boogieman said:

Octafish said:

LastMantra said:

I think the test should be much harder to begin with. 

Yep and limited to how many times you take it. If it takes you more than 3 or 4 attempts you likely to always be a bit crap at driving and just relying on chance to pass.

My ex wife took 9 attempts to pass her test. Even then I’m not sure how she passed, she’s quite possibly the worst driver I’ve met. Even my kids refused to get in her car once they were old enough to realise how shit she was.  “Err, no thanks, we’ll wait for dad to take us”. 

I used to be in a relationship with a Chinese girl (well she was English but both her parents were from Hong Kong) and i'm convinced she took her sisters test for her. She told me once she was going to and if the instructor question the photo on the license she'd pull the race card "all you Chinese look alike" etc... so I wen't off on in a huge rant over it and I thought it'd done the trick, however the 1 time I got in a car with her sister I changed my mind!!

MrBump

RiftAmps said:

I’m a long standing advocate of the need to improve driving standards in this country.

My preference would be a yearly driving assessment that could be carried out not just by examiners, but driving instructors too. Think of it as an MOT for your driving skills. If not yearly, then bi-yearly or even every 5 years would work. Allowing someone to pass their test at 17 and then go unchecked until they reach retirement age is madness.

Failure would result in a range of ‘punishments’ from being required to take a few extra practical lessons and maybe a theory test too, right through to a full-on ban until the required standard is achieved.

I recently sat my B+E trailer test and even though I passed my car test only 16 years ago, I was shocked at how much a) the driving laws had changed and b) how stricter the test was.

Everyone would benefit from a refresher course,
as a minimum.

This.  Doesn't have to be a test - just an intervention to ensure that bad habits aren't creeping in.

crunchman

ICBM said:

I fully understand that there are a few over-80s who can drive safely, but in my opinion they are likely to be the exception not the rule.

It's important to realise that the graph above is for death rate per million *population*, not per million *drivers* - that makes the over-80s far worse, since the population over that age, and the numbers driving even among those, is much lower than for the other age decades. It's also just for the drivers, and not for whoever else they might kill. That may apply to the 70-79 decade as well, where there is clearly a huge jump in the death rate.

My dad is 77 on Sunday.  His driving is not as good as it used to be.  He's not yet at the point where I'd say he is unsafe to drive, but mum is planning to sell the caravan.  She's not comfortable with him towing a caravan long distances. 

His driving has deteriorated over the last 5 years.  At 72, he was fine, but it has gradually been getting worse.  He drove from Kent to Devon a couple of days ago without incident, but he's probably done that route over 100 times over the years.  I'd be more nervous about him on a route that he doesn't know.  He doesn't react as well as he used to.

They didn't go on holiday to the French alps this year for the first time in around 20 years.  Part of that was because my mum didn't feel comfortable driving down through France with him any more.  Last time they went, mum said that he didn't react well.  Driving unfamiliar roads on the wrong side of the road though is very different from driving routes you know.

He's probably not yet at the point where he needs to stop completely.  I'd still rather ride with him than with my mum - even if my mum was 20 years younger.  She learnt to drive in small town in Devon.  Riding with her on motorways, or in cities, was never a pleasant experience.

I can imagine that there might be an awkward conversation a few years down the line.  He's not going to want to give up.

I think it is mid 70's where things start to go downhill for the majority.  That graph shows an increase for the 70 to 79 age group, but I suspect that the 75+ part of that age group is responsible for a disproportionate number of those.

MattBanshee

I'd propose compulsory medicals and eyesight tests annually for all drivers over 70. MIL won't drive after dusk as her eyesight is so bad that she can't see anything, and probably would lose her licence on the spot if she was tested at the roadside.

JohnnyPlectrum

ICBM said:

...It can be a pain to get them into garages, driveways and parking spaces that were designed more than about 30 years ago though.

Not only that, streets that used to be two way traffic and cars parked each side are now single-lane, congestion causing, rat-runs. 

ICBM

JohnnyPlectrum said:

Not only that, streets that used to be two way traffic and cars parked each side are now single-lane, congestion causing, rat-runs. 

Very true.

Although I have to say that when my last car was hit from the side (by a roughly 18-19 year-old driver, it has to be said!) and my daughter was on the side that was hit, I was *very* glad to be in a wide modern car with doors at least six inches thick. She was completely unhurt - there wasn't even any visible intrusion into the inside space - and I'm not sure that would have been true in anything built before about 1990.

jpfamps

The UK has some of the safest roads in the World to drive on.

More people were killed on the UK roads in the 20's and 30's than now.

Deaths on UK roads has been falling since the 60's although it does seem to have plateaued at the moment. This is despite a vast increase in traffic, ie UK roads have never been safer to drive on.

That of course does not mean there isn't room for improvement.

The UK driving test is one of the hardest to pass in the World too, and has been getting harder.

I'm not convinced that making the test massively harder would be beneficial, and retesting everyone yearly would simply not be feasible, nor I think helpful.

It would seem to me that two problem areas are inexperienced drivers and older drivers.

From my own perspective I felt I became a much safer driver after the first year or so after passing my test, and, not withstanding typical teenage testosterone fuelled boy racers, I suspect that's true of most drivers.

Maybe this could be addressed by making "P" plates compulsory.

For sure though, there are older drivers who are simply don't have the faculties, and I expect this can only be addressed by some for compulsory testing.