Badcat v Matchless (v Badcat)

smudge_lad

After hearing the recent TPS video on EL84 amps, and loving the sound of the HC-30 I started to look into the amp a bit more. 

I then seen that a Badcat Blackcat is basically the same, I think? So a lot more affordable with negotiable differences.

I already have a Badcat Cub 40R combo which has the EF-86 switchable pre-amp section which sounded so good on TPS. So maybe I just need a good 2x12 instead of using the stock speaker to give it more oomph?

I’ve also noticed the Blackcat 30r hand-wried head with cab for sale in the classifieds, which tempted me to “upgrade” and get the proper 2 channels like the Matchless, however it’s a bit too far for me to drive to collect. 

Anyone able to weigh in here and talk me into/out of GASing to replace my current Badcat? Anyone compared the Badcat to the Matchless?

StuartMac290

The very early Black Cat 30s basically WERE Matchless HC30s - they're even stuffed full of Matchless components. The only difference, I believe, is that Mark Sampson moved the location of one of the transformers in the circuit, but the result seems to have been an even better-sounding amp.

I've put mine (one of the earliest Bad Cats) up against various Matchless HC30s and DC30s in the studio on a number of occasions, and in blind tests I've ALWAYS picked the Bad Cat. For me personally, that's the best amp ever made.

There's one of these old ones in the classifieds just now with an original cab. If I wasn't skint I'd be buying that to have a second one. If I was you I'd be driving across the country today to pick that up!

I've had various newer Bad Cats too, and they are wonderful amps, but none has ever quite captured the magic of those earliest ones. The build quality is different too - they've lost the military-grade jack sockets of the original, for example, and the second rectifier socket. Plus, you can no longer chain the channels, which is a real pity.

Of the newer ones, the model just before the K Master version was my favourite, but if you can find an original four-input Black Cat 30 in great nick, jump on it.

smudge_lad

@StuartMac290 - if it was “across the country” I would, but it’s all the way “down” the country from Scotland, so there’s a couple of hundred extra pounds on the amp price too, and a full weekend of driving

StuartMac290

Worth it! It's a stupidly low price. I paid £1500 just for the head. This is the head, the 2x12, a spare combo shell, and a flight case all for less than that

Wazmeister

Interesting thread...

I cant comment on the early Badcats, but I trust Stu Macs ears and knowledge.

But for me, having owned two Bad Cats, the Matchless do have a little bit ‘more’ - of everything. The more recent Bad Cats are good, but as Stu says above, some components have been changed and they are not Matchless good.

In other words, superior... your need for “more oomph” ?

Lord above, my 15w Nighthawk is one of the loudest, room filling 3D amps Ive ever played.

Neils Bad Cat is very close to me and I was tempted. Its an amazing price, with everything you need.

The fickle part of me though wants that lit-up Matchless logo chiming away !

We are rehearsing tomorrow night and Im already excited.

pmg

Wazmeister said:

Interesting thread...

I cant comment on the early Badcats, but I trust Stu Macs ears and knowledge.

But for me, having owned two Bad Cats, the Matchless do have a little bit ‘more’ - of everything. The more recent Bad Cats are good, but as Stu says above, some components have been changed and they are not Matchless good.

In other words, superior... your need for “more oomph” ?

Lord above, my 15w Nighthawk is one of the loudest, room filling 3D amps Ive ever played.

Neils Bad Cat is very close to me and I was tempted. Its an amazing price, with everything you need.

The fickle part of me though wants that lit-up Matchless logo chiming away !

We are rehearsing tomorrow night and Im already excited.

I want that nighthawk.

Wazmeister

pmg said:

Wazmeister said:

Interesting thread...

I cant comment on the early Badcats, but I trust Stu Macs ears and knowledge.

But for me, having owned two Bad Cats, the Matchless do have a little bit ‘more’ - of everything. The more recent Bad Cats are good, but as Stu says above, some components have been changed and they are not Matchless good.

In other words, superior... your need for “more oomph” ?

Lord above, my 15w Nighthawk is one of the loudest, room filling 3D amps Ive ever played.

Neils Bad Cat is very close to me and I was tempted. Its an amazing price, with everything you need.

The fickle part of me though wants that lit-up Matchless logo chiming away !

We are rehearsing tomorrow night and Im already excited.

I want that nighthawk.

You had my matching Lightning !! Grrr....

robmac5150

This is embarrassingly shallow to say, but Im just gonna say it. Bad Cat logo cheapens them imho. I saw an early amp Mark Sampson made with a Sampson logo. Much classier. Just saying ...phew

smudge_lad

robmac5150 said:

This is embarrassingly shallow to say, but Im just gonna say it. Bad Cat logo cheapens them imho. I saw an early amp Mark Sampson made with a Sampson logo. Much classier. Just saying ...phew

I actually kinda agree...

hotpickups

smudge_lad said:

robmac5150 said:

This is embarrassingly shallow to say, but Im just gonna say it. Bad Cat logo cheapens them imho. I saw an early amp Mark Sampson made with a Sampson logo. Much classier. Just saying ...phew

I actually kinda agree...

The lit Bad Cat logo attracted me to them  funnily enough. A bit like the 633 amps did apart from their price tag which certainly didn’t attract   We’re all different lol

robmac5150

hotpickups said:

smudge_lad said:

robmac5150 said:

This is embarrassingly shallow to say, but Im just gonna say it. Bad Cat logo cheapens them imho. I saw an early amp Mark Sampson made with a Sampson logo. Much classier. Just saying ...phew

I actually kinda agree...

The lit Bad Cat logo attracted me to them  funnily enough. A bit like the 633 amps did apart from their price tag which certainly didn’t attract   We’re all different lol

love the light up bit. I sold a Matchless Chieftain to my eternal regret and 633 amps look amazing

Keefy

smudge_lad said:

After hearing the recent TPS video on EL84 amps, and loving the sound of the HC-30 I started to look into the amp a bit more. 

I then seen that a Badcat Blackcat is basically the same, I think? So a lot more affordable with negotiable differences.

I already have a Badcat Cub 40R combo which has the EF-86 switchable pre-amp section which sounded so good on TPS. So maybe I just need a good 2x12 instead of using the stock speaker to give it more oomph?

I’ve also noticed the Blackcat 30r hand-wried head with cab for sale in the classifieds, which tempted me to “upgrade” and get the proper 2 channels like the Matchless, however it’s a bit too far for me to drive to collect. 

Anyone able to weigh in here and talk me into/out of GASing to replace my current Badcat? Anyone compared the Badcat to the Matchless?

@IvisonGuitars has/had both Matchless and Badcat - maybe he can comment?

hywelg

pmg said:

Wazmeister said:

Interesting thread...

I cant comment on the early Badcats, but I trust Stu Macs ears and knowledge.

But for me, having owned two Bad Cats, the Matchless do have a little bit ‘more’ - of everything. The more recent Bad Cats are good, but as Stu says above, some components have been changed and they are not Matchless good.

In other words, superior... your need for “more oomph” ?

Lord above, my 15w Nighthawk is one of the loudest, room filling 3D amps Ive ever played.

Neils Bad Cat is very close to me and I was tempted. Its an amazing price, with everything you need.

The fickle part of me though wants that lit-up Matchless logo chiming away !

We are rehearsing tomorrow night and Im already excited.

I want that nighthawk.

Be patient, he's only had it a month. It'll be at least another 2 before its up for sale

pmg

hywelg said:

pmg said:

Wazmeister said:

Interesting thread...

I cant comment on the early Badcats, but I trust Stu Macs ears and knowledge.

But for me, having owned two Bad Cats, the Matchless do have a little bit ‘more’ - of everything. The more recent Bad Cats are good, but as Stu says above, some components have been changed and they are not Matchless good.

In other words, superior... your need for “more oomph” ?

Lord above, my 15w Nighthawk is one of the loudest, room filling 3D amps Ive ever played.

Neils Bad Cat is very close to me and I was tempted. Its an amazing price, with everything you need.

The fickle part of me though wants that lit-up Matchless logo chiming away !

We are rehearsing tomorrow night and Im already excited.

I want that nighthawk.

Be patient, he's only had it a month. It'll be at least another 2 before its up for sale

I know!