Quantized Drums

PolarityMan

WiresDreamDisasters said:

Modern humanisation algorithms are usually based on gaussian white noise. IE:

Take a note at beat 3.0.0.0 and add a small amount of white noise to it's positioning, and it'll be put at 3.0.0.379, and the next one might be 4.0.0.237, etc.

This isn't musical and does not reflect what we actually hear in music, or what is actually performed.

There are long-range correlations in music that describe the "grooviness" of a drummer in a non-random fashion. They've been observed and listeners respond better to LRC's than they do pure white noise randomisation.

See this link:
https://physicstoday.scitation.org/doi/10.1063/PT.3.1650

I've never liked timing based humanisation tbh. If I don't want a straight grid then I'll set the grid itself to swing and that gets you much better results while having all the workflow benefits of being gridded. Then if you're really anal you can just tweak the notes a little closer together during fills / rolls.

PolarityMan

Heh that paper decribes a good drummer correcting to being slightly off in my opinion rather than an analysis of groove. Groove happens over much shorter timespans than 1min30 for instance.

My drummer sadly rather than corrects smoothly and gracefully as the example in the paper just will have one beat that suddenly lands back on the grid which is really jarring if its not edited out. 

WiresDreamDisasters

Ehhh depends what you mean by groove. To me, groove is a feel thing that can be n amount of time, but it has a certain loose quality to it always.

PolarityMan

WiresDreamDisasters said:

Ehhh depends what you mean by groove. To me, groove is a feel thing that can be n amount of time, but it has a certain loose quality to it always.

For me its the thing that makes you subconsciously tap your foot / nod your head or whatever....the higher the urge, the more the groove.

So really macro level stuff like deciding to push the beat on a particular part and lay back for another part is still feel but not specifically groove.  

thegummy

WiresDreamDisasters said:

Modern humanisation algorithms are usually based on gaussian white noise. IE:

Take a note at beat 3.0.0.0 and add a small amount of white noise to it's positioning, and it'll be put at 3.0.0.379, and the next one might be 4.0.0.237, etc.

This isn't musical and does not reflect what we actually hear in music, or what is actually performed.

There are long-range correlations in music that describe the "grooviness" of a drummer in a non-random fashion. They've been observed and listeners respond better to LRC's than they do pure white noise randomisation.

See this link:
https://physicstoday.scitation.org/doi/10.1063/PT.3.1650

That article mentions a few times that people prefer human played drums to perfectly timed programmed drums, because the latter sounds artificial, but it doesn't give any sources for that.

Anyone got any links to studies where that theory is actually tested?

p90fool

PolarityMan said:

For my money though focussing on humanising velocity is way more important than timing.

This is the first thing I attend to after I have the basis of a song over programmed drums up and running - having identical hits in a traditional band rather electronica context sticks out like a sore thumb. 

Regarding quantized drums not sounding (or more accurately not feeling) good though, I'm convinced that's mainly down to lazy programming. 

Tempo maps are there for a reason and tempo changes of a few bpm between verse and chorus like a real drummer does are an obvious thing to try (especially slowing it noticeably for the cliched quiet third verse), but even just advancing the entire snare track alone by a handful of milliseconds can give a genuine sense of urgency to a passage without the listener noticing what's happened. 

Did I read somewhere that Kylie's Can't get you out of my head gradually increases tempo throughout the entire song? If so, it shows that even in purely programmed music we respond to an imperceptible ramping up of urgency on a subliminal level. 

WiresDreamDisasters

p90fool said:

Did I read somewhere that Kylie's Can't get you out of my head gradually increases tempo throughout the entire song? If so, it shows that even in purely programmed music we respond to an imperceptible ramping up of urgency on a subliminal level. 

They attached electrodes to her ass cheeks and converted her twerks to a tempo map. Clever stuff.

p90fool

WiresDreamDisasters said:

p90fool said:

Did I read somewhere that Kylie's Can't get you out of my head gradually increases tempo throughout the entire song? If so, it shows that even in purely programmed music we respond to an imperceptible ramping up of urgency on a subliminal level. 

They attached electrodes to her ass cheeks and converted her twerks to a tempo map. Clever stuff.

That would "humanise" the beat, on her own admission she's a terrible dancer!