Original Blue Flower 68 Tele - With a difference ??????????????????????

ten77guitar

Seziertisch said:

ICBM said:

JezWynd said:

Emptor stupidus might be more appropriate in this instance.

Indeed. But the point I'm making is that without actual evidence like this of finding the parts in an old sale listing, or physical marks on the parts, how do you know that *any* old Fender is factory original? Usually the best you can say is that the parts are all of the same era (sometimes year) and that there's no evidence it *isn't* original...

Achtung Minen.

Even presuming that a vintage Fender is a 100% bona fide, unmolested example, exactly as it was when it left the factory, the fact that when it was originally assembled in the factory all the bits of it - body, neck and hardware - were all probably selected at random from whatever stock was on hand that day raises the question of where to draw the line on what is authentically vintage and what is worth paying a premium for. 

You could buy all the vintage parts of the same/similar age separately, assemble a guitar out of them and justify it as “authentic” because owing to the random nature of the assembly line back in the day, theoretically those parts selected by you “could” have found themselves put together in 1962 or whatever.

Considering that you can be be 100% sure that what you are getting is not some sort of partscaster assembled after the fact, is it ever worth paying a premium? Also, referring to discussions on here about the practices of Musicground and similar enterprises, there must be a quite a few partscasters (made of both original and aftermarket parts) doing the rounds claiming to 100% vintage, which are great guitars and which are loved by their owners. And how many guys who unbeknownst own vintage guitars of dubious provenance, tell themselves that the price is justified because new instruments just don’t have the same “mojo”? 

I agree with all of that. Ultimately what matters is if someone is happy with a guitar. However, when large sums of money are involved it becomes a question of honesty and representation. People will pay a premium for an all original guitar because the originality is important to them. If it didn’t they could have saved a lot of money and bought a partcaster. So if they pay a premium and it turns out the guitar isn’t all original then I can understand why they would be disgruntled.

I like vintage guitars and think they do have something about them - maybe it’s the quality of the wood they used back then or the way it ages over many years. I don’t know, but it is something that new guitars don’t seem to have. But I would never pay a premium for one that’s “all original”. I actually prefer to find players examples that have well-known issues but work as great playing instruments. If you buy them at the right price so what if the neck and body were put together later or that the tuners have been replaced?

Seziertisch

I like vintage guitars and think they do have something about them - maybe it’s the quality of the wood they used back then or the way it ages over many years. I don’t know, but it is something that new guitars don’t seem to have. But I would never pay a premium for one that’s “all original”. I actually prefer to find players examples that have well-known issues but work as great playing instruments. If you buy them at the right price so what if the neck and body were put together later or that the tuners have been replaced?

Vintage/older instruments do have something about them. Though, I think it might be a tactile thing as much as anything else.

I had the pleasure of playing two Gil Yaron Les Paul copies, one reliced and one not.

Both excellent guitars, though the relic was one of the best guitars I have ever played and the non-relic was just on a par with a good custom shop Gibson. 

Now, all woods and parts of both guitars would have gone through the same rigorous selection process and for all intents and purposes they were very similar/at a similar quality level. 

But the reliced model just had something about it. Now the relicing process used was a lot more than just knocking a bit of paint off it here and there (there is a thread on one of the Telecaster forums where Gil details the process), the guitar was left out in the sun and rubbed with chicken fat amongst other things. It was molecular in nature, though in terms of actual impact on the sound and playability of the instrument, it was also quite superficial, yet somehow it made all the difference.

JayGee

Seziertisch said:

I like vintage guitars and think they do have something about them - maybe it’s the quality of the wood they used back then or the way it ages over many years. I don’t know, but it is something that new guitars don’t seem to have. But I would never pay a premium for one that’s “all original”. I actually prefer to find players examples that have well-known issues but work as great playing instruments. If you buy them at the right price so what if the neck and body were put together later or that the tuners have been replaced?

Vintage/older instruments do have something about them. Though, I think it might be a tactile thing as much as anything else.

Personally I think a lot of it is in the head, which is not to say it doesn’t exist - I absolutely believe in “Mojo”, I just think that it’s a subjective response by a player to a lot of subtle or even subliminal cues[1]. If its there then an instrument feels better in your hands, if it feels better you’ll want to handle it and play it more, and if you play more (and feel good about your playing) then on the whole you’ll play better and sound better...

 [1] From your description I’d say that Gil Yaron has managed to do a good job of isolating, identifying, and reproducing those cues, and that your knowing that he’s done a lot of painstaking and sometimes slightly odd stuff as a result of a lot of research and experimentation to achieve that might actually be an important part of the process...

prlgmnr

Seziertisch said:
 the guitar was left out in the sun and rubbed with chicken fat 

Just like momma used to make em

bloomer

Anyone know where I can get a tin of that wood-grained paint?

GoldenEraGuitars

bloomer said:

Anyone know where I can get a tin of that wood-grained paint?

The fender custom shop has a ware house full of it beside their templates