Rickenbacker refin

Seziertisch

I have a 90s Rick 360 I am considering getting refinished, mainly because I much prefer the feel of nitro.

I know Rick used something called conversion varnish, which they big up for its shininess/hardness/durability. They also claim it is much better than nitro, which might be true from a technical point of view but not from a playing feel one (IMHO).

 Anyone have any experience doing Rick refinishes? Any one have any thoughts on CV vs nitro? I find it a bit odd that if this CV was really all that surely other manufacturers would be using it/have used it.

Funkfingers

RIC is (in)famous for its unusual - sometimes, unique - production methods. Mister Hall invariably insists that whatever the company is currently doing is the best way to build their products. 

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CV is a two-pack whose curing process yields some undesirable/harmful by-products. I am surprised that this finish is permitted under Californian state legislation.

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Funkfingers said:

RIC is (in)famous for its unusual - sometimes, unique - production methods. Mister Hall invariably insists that whatever the company is currently doing is the best way to build their products. 

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CV is a two-pack whose curing process yields some undesirable/harmful by-products. I am surprised that this finish is permitted under Californian state legislation.

They no longer use CV, they now use UV cured polyester, which is the new best thing apparently.

prowla

Well, I think Ric finishes are the best on the market, so they must be getting something right.

@Seziertisch Are you looking to do it yourself or have someone do it for you?

ICBM

Conversion Varnish is catalysed polyurethane, but it’s more of a furniture-trade name for it. If it’s applied thinly like Rickenbacker do it’s actually quite similar to nitro in look and durability - it’s still subject to wear and solvent attack, just not as much.

As you said they’ve replaced it with UV-cured polyester now, I think because of environmental legislation. I’m not sure I’ve played a new enough Rick to have come across it yet, I think it’s only from the last couple of years.

Seziertisch

prowla said:

Well, I think Ric finishes are the best on the market, so they must be getting something right.

@Seziertisch Are you looking to do it yourself or have someone do it for you?

@prowla It will be somebody else.

@ICBM I think the change over came in 2010, so there should be a few of the newer ones doing the rounds

ICBM

Seziertisch said:

@ICBM I think the change over came in 2010, so there should be a few of the newer ones doing the rounds

As long ago as that? In that case I must have played some of the new ones, so there must not be a lot of difference in look or feel...

I’ve always liked RIC finishes too. I’m not a fan of nitro, I don’t like the slightly sticky feel or the ease of damage.

prowla

Seziertisch said:

prowla said:

Well, I think Ric finishes are the best on the market, so they must be getting something right.

@Seziertisch Are you looking to do it yourself or have someone do it for you?

@prowla It will be somebody else.

@ICBM I think the change over came in 2010, so there should be a few of the newer ones doing the rounds

Check out Harry White on Facebook.

Seziertisch

One of the things that kind of irks me about the current factory finish is that the tuner grooves on the headstock (it’s a 12 string) weren’t cleaned properly before it was painted, so you can see dust and debris under the paint. It would have taken another 15 minutes tops to get the stuff off before painting.

That kind of sums up Rickenbacker for me, making a big deal about being authentic US made guitars, while displaying a lack of quality control and attention to detail that you wouldn’t even encounter on a Chinese Squier.

Though a friend of a friend lived close to the Gibson factory in Memphis for a while. He regularly saw the people working their way too and from work. He said they didn’t give the impression of being master craftspeople on their way to do a job they loved, they resembled factory workers going to work in any factory anywhere.

Seziertisch

prowla said:

Seziertisch said:

prowla said:

Well, I think Ric finishes are the best on the market, so they must be getting something right.

@Seziertisch Are you looking to do it yourself or have someone do it for you?

@prowla It will be somebody else.

@ICBM I think the change over came in 2010, so there should be a few of the newer ones doing the rounds

Check out Harry White on Facebook.

What’s his business name?

ICBM

Seziertisch said:

One of the things that kind of irks me about the current factory finish is that the tuner grooves on the headstock (it’s a 12 string) weren’t cleaned properly before it was painted, so you can see dust and debris under the paint. It would have taken another 15 minutes tops to get the stuff off before painting.

That kind of sums up Rickenbacker for me, making a big deal about being authentic US made guitars, while displaying a lack of quality control and attention to detail that you wouldn’t even encounter on a Chinese Squier.

Though a friend of a friend lived close to the Gibson factory in Memphis for a while. He regularly saw the people working their way too and from work. He said they didn’t give the impression of being master craftspeople on their way to do a job they loved, they resembled factory workers going to work in any factory anywhere.

Yes, I've seen similar carelessness on many Rickenbackers too - I don't mean just "accidents", I mean things where someone must have seen the problem and simply didn't care. Likewise Gibson.

I know an American chap who actually worked for both Gibson and Rickenbacker at different times - not in production - and said the same thing. Apparently there was quite a lot of weed smoked at Gibson... it also recently topped an anonymous employment ratings website as the worst company to work for in the US - not the worst guitar company, the worst company.

SteveRobinson

Seziertisch said:

That kind of sums up Rickenbacker for me, making a big deal about being authentic US made guitars, while displaying a lack of quality control and attention to detail that you wouldn’t even encounter on a Chinese Squier.

I set up a lefty 4003 recently. It had been shipped with a righty bridge (maybe they all are?) so I had to reassemble it with the springs and saddles in the correct order for left-handed intonation.

At least it had a left-handed headstock unlike the early ones.

Seziertisch

SteveRobinson said:

Seziertisch said:

That kind of sums up Rickenbacker for me, making a big deal about being authentic US made guitars, while displaying a lack of quality control and attention to detail that you wouldn’t even encounter on a Chinese Squier.

I set up a lefty 4003 recently. It had been shipped with a righty bridge (maybe they all are?) so I had to reassemble it with the springs and saddles in the correct order for left-handed intonation.

At least it had a left-handed headstock unlike the early ones.

It’s baffling how something like that went unnoticed.

I very briefly participated in the official Rick forum. I lacked the blind devotion needed to fit in. The gospel according to John Hall. 

Also, they are so proud of their lack of innovation - nothing has changed since we started, though they seem to be able change specs on some stuff when it suits them (I’ve played newer 360s that seem to have a different style centre block and the headstock grooves were replaced with full cut outs). I saw a post somewhere from John Hall talking about how they had made a couple of custom 330 12s for the Edge with wider fingerboards.  Well, I think most people would find a 330 12 with a wider fingerboard, so why not make them generally available? The Edge says he wants one and they immediately oblige, the general public ask for one and get told no, sorry, we just make them like we used to.

Anyways, I digress, @SteveRobinson, as a purveyor of fine nitro paint do you have any wisdom/experience to share?

prowla

Seziertisch said:

prowla said:

Seziertisch said:

prowla said:

Well, I think Ric finishes are the best on the market, so they must be getting something right.

@Seziertisch Are you looking to do it yourself or have someone do it for you?

@prowla It will be somebody else.

@ICBM I think the change over came in 2010, so there should be a few of the newer ones doing the rounds

Check out Harry White on Facebook.

What’s his business name?

I don't know if he has a business name; his avatar is a pic of him playing a Ric...

prowla

SteveRobinson said:

Seziertisch said:

That kind of sums up Rickenbacker for me, making a big deal about being authentic US made guitars, while displaying a lack of quality control and attention to detail that you wouldn’t even encounter on a Chinese Squier.

I set up a lefty 4003 recently. It had been shipped with a righty bridge (maybe they all are?) so I had to reassemble it with the springs and saddles in the correct order for left-handed intonation.

At least it had a left-handed headstock unlike the early ones.

That's funny - was the nut the right way up?

SteveRobinson

Regards refinishing? I'd say don't do it.

The hardest part will be stripping the old finish, especially the fretboard if you are leaving the frets in place.

Seziertisch

SteveRobinson said:

Regards refinishing? I'd say don't do it.

The hardest part will be stripping the old finish, especially the fretboard if you are leaving the frets in place.

The guitar was refretted a couple of years ago and the fretboard never refinished. The guy who did the refret/stripped the fingerboard said there was no need for the fretboard to even have been lacquered in the first place.

Would that change your mind?

ICBM

Seziertisch said:

I very briefly participated in the official Rick forum. I lacked the blind devotion needed to fit in. The gospel according to John Hall.

I was booted off the forum for proving John Hall wrong .

Or at least I assume that was the reason - there was no explanation or even notice, I simply found myself locked out the next time I tried to log in.

Seziertisch

ICBM said:

Seziertisch said:

I very briefly participated in the official Rick forum. I lacked the blind devotion needed to fit in. The gospel according to John Hall.

I was booted off the forum for proving John Hall wrong .

Or at least I assume that was the reason - there was no explanation or even notice, I simply found myself locked out the next time I tried to log in.

Ha. What was the point of scripture you disagreed on?

ICBM

Seziertisch said:

Ha. What was the point of scripture you disagreed on?

RWRP pickups - the 4003 is now probably the only professional-quality bass still made that doesn't have some form of hum-cancellation available if you need it. Mr. Hall refuses to use them, since he says it changes the sound of the instrument and they don't want that. So I reversed the bridge pickup on my 4003 by flipping the magnet and reconnecting the coil, recorded it both before and after, and posted the audio files proving that there was no difference in the sound...

Seziertisch

ICBM said:

Seziertisch said:

Ha. What was the point of scripture you disagreed on?

RWRP pickups - the 4003 is now probably the only professional-quality bass still made that doesn't have some form of hum-cancellation available if you need it. Mr. Hall refuses to use them, since he says it changes the sound of the instrument and they don't want that. So I reversed the bridge pickup on my 4003 by flipping the magnet and reconnecting the coil, recorded it both before and after, and posted the audio files proving that there was no difference in the sound...

You truly are a modern day Galileo ;-)