Any classical guitarists in house?

Epsilon

I'm developing an interest in classical guitar but I'm slightly lost trying to nail down a good model! I'd like to buy once and buy well, and go straight for a decent concert level classical to take me through the grades. I'm a pretty decent steel string finger style player, and hoping classical will help me apply this whilst improving my theory and sight reading.

 I'd be looking to buy used, and would like an all solid instrument with a budget of £800-1,000. Is that a realistic price point on the used market? Any recommendations from fellow forumites on models, resources or shops? I'm based in south London.

viz

I’d contact the lovely chaps at the guitar studio near bond street. They’re ace. 

Toms_Dad

Welcome to the world of classical guitar! Be careful, it’s very addictive. I started a few years ago and all my electrics are gathering dust.
I would say that your budget is certainly enough to buy a decent secondhand, all solid wood guitar. Some of the usual rules apply. As such, as a rule of thumb, a secondhand classical guitar should cost between half and two thirds of new price depending on condition. 

However beware of the term “concert” classical. This generally implies a luthier made instrument capable of being used for public performance. These will generally be much more expensive and many modern ones have a double top. The principle benefit of these as far as I can tell is extra volume. Unless you perform publicly you probably don’t ever need to go that far.

Your budget should buy a good quality, nice sounding student model, probably factory made by a good name such as Amalio Burguet or Manuel Rodriguez for example. If you get a good one, the difference in tone between that and a luthier model should be quite small.
As an example, I have been playing a good quality factory made guitar for the last 3 years and only recently upgraded.  I now have a guitar by a local luthier.  I bought mine from him second hand, but his new ones are more than £4,000. I can definitely tell the difference in tone, although it is not a double top and not louder. This doesn’t matter to me as I only play for myself.

Just like buying an acoustic, it is essential that you try before you buy. With this in mind I agree with viz above that The London Guitar Studio might be a good place to start. Also in your part of the country, check out Kent Classical Guitars, although they tend towards the luthier made top end.

Fretwired

I studied classical guitar back in the 1970s. It was the only guitar tuition I could get through my local County Council Education Service. It is very addictive and requires dedication.

I'd talk to these guys .. nerdy, but knowledgeable.

https://www.classicalguitar.co.uk/

ten77guitar

You’re going to struggle to get a concert level guitar for £800–1000 even on the used market. You’d be looking for a decent student level guitar. The problem though is that there are a lot of mediocre guitars in that price range. 

Another problem is that some makers, eg Ramirez, put their labels on guitar made elsewhere that they buy in. So you’re buying a “Ramirez” that wasn’t even made by them.

I’m not saying you can’t get a decent guitar but you have to be careful. If you’re not experienced at assessing the quality of a classical you’re probably best going to a dealer. The ones already mentioned - London Guitar Studio and Kent Guitar Classics - are the best in your area.

digitalkettle

ten77guitar said:

You’re going to struggle to get a concert level guitar for £800–1000 even on the used market. You’d be looking for a decent student level guitar.

I would agree with this (but you can still do well with your budget).

I wouldn't get caught up with the double top thing too much. Reminds me of advice from when I went looking for a reasonable push-bike: "sure, you can get dual suspension but, for what you want to spend, you'd be better off with only front suspension and a nice bouncy seat...keep the quality up and weight down"

Back when I was looking for my first 'serious student' classical (the Amalio Burguet 2M that's being played in my signature link below actually), I narrowed my requirements down to a simple, traditional, solid spruce top guitar with solid back and sides. It was played in public and no regrets were had (not by me anyway).

...and even if I found a nice classical with laminate construction that might be great too: you don't hear many complaints from Collings I35-LC owners...but that's a high-end electric so not comparable with low-to-mid range classicals (just thought I'd cover it off as I got into it thinking laminates were always cheap and evil).

beed84

Good decision. I converted to classical about 6 years ago and haven't looked back. As others as have said, it's very addictive and uber rewarding.

In terms of options, then I'd certainly buy used – you could get a nice really nice old Spanish made guitar with your current budget. Currently I have a model 56 and 59 Taurus from 1968 and 1970 respectively, which are worth around £4-500 each. They're much better than anything new in that price range. There are some Japanese options which are also a good shout.

However, because you have a large budget, I wouldn't necessarily spend it all just yet. If you get something too good, you won't particularly benefit from it. During the early stages you'll be learning basics such as rest stroke and free stroke, and fairly simple pieces – you don't require a £1000 guitar to do those things. Also, if you do have an expensive guitar from day one, by the time you've progressed (assuming you intend to do grades) you won't have anywhere to go quality wise and won't appreciate the upgrade, the enhanced playability, the much better sound, and the expert craftsmanship. If it were me (and I did do this to some extent) I would purchase a fairly modest entry level guitar around £200-400 and upgrade by the time you've reached grade 5, for example. If you succeed at Grade 8, then that's a great excuse to go all out and buy something really fancy. 

I've compiled a few suggestions below. These are the sort of guitars I'd be looking at if I were starting out (I'm actually tempted by the last one):

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Yamaha-CG-170SA-Classical-Acoustic-Guitar-and-hard-case/184116015744?hash=item2ade2b7280:g:teUAAOSwPqZeEkyM

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Manuel-Rodriguez-Model-A-Spanish-Guitar/193295973623?hash=item2d01567cf7:g:hSEAAOSw64ZeGenM

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RYOJI-MATSUOKA-M50-CLASSICAL-SPANISH-GUITAR-MADE-BY-TOP-JAPANESE-LUTHIER/223750291164?hash=item34188e7edc:g:hiUAAOSwpshdzd4a

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Antonio-Picado-Model-54-Classical-Guitar-with-hard-case/223843102954?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

If you don't want to buy used, however, then Admira are generally a good place to start.

I hope this helps. If you have any questions or whatever, feel free to drop me a message. I'm no expert but I'd be happy to help further if I can  

ToneControl

I had a Manuel Rodriguez FG, which listed at about £1800 RRP
It was 2 leagues away from the "concert" ones I bought after years of being unmotivated by the MR FG

You can buy high-end factory-made classicals very cheaply on ebay if you have patience: learn the model numbers from the price lists and put permanent searches onto ebay, I got my FG for £600 or so a few years back
In fact I got a £350 RRP Spanish-made for £50 (middle of North Wales, no case and collection only, so no other bidders) that played nicely

For the best stuff, London guitar studio are great, but it's in a prime location and nothing is going to be a bargain
my advice is to find the small "guitar brokers", typically guys with 20-30 guitars, trading from their house, you can try loads, find out what suits you in a quiet environment, and their overheads are much lower. Buying non-factory models mail order is lucky dip really, the instruments may not suit you, how would you ever know in advance?

ToneControl

http://nugentguitars.com/classical-guitars/

https://www.kentguitarclassics.com/guitars

https://www.classicalguitardelcamp.com/viewforum.php?f=3&sid=630803b198c9fde844a7e1796e44bc35

http://www.classical-guitars-plus.co.uk/productclass.php/class__1265__Chinese+Luthiers

Epsilon

Thanks very much for all the extremely helpful replies. Some really good resources and info there. I had planned to visit the London Guitar Studio and try out a couple of Burguets but unfortunately an unexpected expense occured (new PC required). I got an early 80s MIJ Takamine C182 for cheap which will keep me satisfied for a while and until finances recover sufficiently. In fairness it plays flawlessly and doesnt sound half bad. 

ToneControl

Epsilon said:

Thanks very much for all the extremely helpful replies. Some really good resources and info there. I had planned to visit the London Guitar Studio and try out a couple of Burguets but unfortunately an unexpected expense occured (new PC required). I got an early 80s MIJ Takamine C182 for cheap which will keep me satisfied for a while and until finances recover sufficiently. In fairness it plays flawlessly and doesnt sound half bad. 

look for a £100 used Spanish guitar on ebay to keep you going

beed84

I think you made a sensible choice