Studio monitor upgrade recommendations for mixing/producing/playback

Branshen

I've been using my iloud micro monitors for mixing and media consumption for about 1.5 years and I've finally outgrown them as I've been finding them lacking as of late.

I think they're great for the size but ultimately, they lack depth (low end) and richness (they sound small?). It is tedious to have to keep switching to headphones to check bass etc while mixing. 

My music space is not ideal as it is close to the wall, but I'll tackle one problem at a time.. 

I can probably set aside enough to get a pair of Yamaha HS7s or HS8s, which would be the upper limit of my budget. The Kali LP6 looks interesting but I'm afraid that there won't be enough low end considering their size. In this price range, it is quite saturated with a whole host of options including Adam, KRK, JBL. Any suggestions? 

Edit: I shouldn't assume that everyone knows how much yammies cost. Budget is £500, so I won't be getting kii threes... 

Fretwired

Spend £300 on a pair of Yamaha HS7s and get some decent stands. I went around the market a while back, listened to a load of monitors and settled on HS7's. I also have iLoud monitors so I can guarantee they'll be a step up. Go and listen to a pair.

Winny_Pooh

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.co.uk/ulk/itm/283726280266

octatonic

On the bottom end issue- if you really need massive bass then go 2:1.
A £300 sub will give you all the bottom end you need, right up to the point that the room starts interfering and you need to spend a load of money on bass trapping.

I'd argue that in an acoustically compromised room you actually want smaller drivers- certainly not anything over 6.5" or so.
Going for something wth larger drivers in an essentially untreated room will just highlight deficiencies in the room and give you loads of problems.

You can't solve this problem by buying bigger speakers unless you are prepared to treat the room.

Branshen

Fretwired said:

Spend £300 on a pair of Yamaha HS7s and get some decent stands. I went around the market a while back, listened to a load of monitors and settled on HS7's. I also have iLoud monitors so I can guarantee they'll be a step up. Go and listen to a pair.

Those are definitely a strong candidate. But since they are rear ported, and I'm using them close to a back wall, I think I'd opt for the Kali LP6s instead, together with some stands. 

There are a few detailed reviews of the two side by side and there's not much difference between them quality wise. 

Taking on octatonic's advice, they're both 6.5 inchers, so that's one aspect sorted.

Unfortunately, this is a temporary rented room, so I am not in a position to treat it.

@winny_pooh thanks but as I'm not in the UK, I won't be able to purchase on ebay UK. 

Branshen

Fretwired said:

Spend £300 on a pair of Yamaha HS7s and get some decent stands. I went around the market a while back, listened to a load of monitors and settled on HS7's. I also have iLoud monitors so I can guarantee they'll be a step up. Go and listen to a pair.

Those are definitely a strong candidate. But since they are rear ported, and I'm using them close to a back wall, I think I'd opt for the Kali LP6s instead, together with some stands. 

There are a few detailed reviews of the two side by side and there's not much difference between them quality wise. 

Taking on octatonic's advice, they're both 6.5 inchers, so that's one aspect sorted.

Unfortunately, this is a temporary rented room, so I am not in a position to treat it.

@winny_pooh thanks but as I'm not in the UK, I won't be able to purchase on ebay UK. 

Branshen

octatonic said:

On the bottom end issue- if you really need massive bass then go 2:1.
A £300 sub will give you all the bottom end you need, right up to the point that the room starts interfering and you need to spend a load of money on bass trapping.

I'd argue that in an acoustically compromised room you actually want smaller drivers- certainly not anything over 6.5" or so.
Going for something wth larger drivers in an essentially untreated room will just highlight deficiencies in the room and give you loads of problems.

You can't solve this problem by buying bigger speakers unless you are prepared to treat the room.

Don't need a massive bass for the music I make but I need to at least be able to hear it. The bass on ilouds are present in a way which seems impossible for their size but they are unfortunately, still abit lacking.

Based on what's been said, and the great reviews, I'd likely go and try out some Kalis! I have seen you mention them specifically before, which put me onto them in the first place. 

Musicwolf

In a home set up 99 times out of 100 problems with bass have little to do with speakers and everything to do with the room, specifically standing waves.  There's plenty of reading / watching material out there to understand the problem (unfortunately mixed with a fair amount of utter bollocks on YouTube channels) but I'd recommend Sound on Sound https://www.soundonsound.com/  as a trusted starting point.

Rented room?  That doesn't mean that you can't treat it, it just means that you cannot drill / permanently fix to the walls.  That makes treating the ceiling a bit of a bugger but walls / corners can be tackled with free standing absorbers.

Unfortunately, with a small room, there is only so much that you can practically achieve and so a decent set of open-backed headphones are going to be your friend for some time to come.  It's no fun as we'd all rather spend our money on sexy stuff like expensive  monitors or things with flashing lights but most of us would be better off investing in Rockwool (RW3) and Cara fabric.  I've been doing this for donkey's years, and have a degree in Physics, but still I'm lusting after a pair of Neumann KH120's to replace my perfectly adequate Adam A5's when I know that the money would be better spent of further room treatment.  Human nature just gets in the way.

PS  I had a listen to your stuff -  very nice

octatonic

Agree ^^^

Yes, acoustic treatment is the boring and necessary purchase.

Branshen

Point taken. I'll budget for some acoustic treatment too. 

spark240

My HS7.s are near to the corners, I have some room treatment but minimal...all sounds ok to me.

menamestom

Ilouds are okay but most proper monitors with bigger drivers will sound better, irrespective of acoustic treatment.
To be honest the ilouds are okay but I regret swapping 5" monitors for them.
   

gringopig

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Chris_J

On the back of this thread I've just bought a pair of HS7's. Gas.

I was relying on an Audio Pro Addon C5 + Sub for play back before, or headphones.

This is a big upgrade 

Now I have the quandary of what do with the Audio Pro gear as it's great for streaming and as a Bluetooth speaker when I'm practicing or just relaxing. Do I need 2 systems in a small from though...!?

Branshen

Chris_J said:

On the back of this thread I've just bought a pair of HS7's. Gas.

I was relying on an Audio Pro Addon C5 + Sub for play back before, or headphones.

This is a big upgrade 

Now I have the quandary of what do with the Audio Pro gear as it's great for streaming and as a Bluetooth speaker when I'm practicing or just relaxing. Do I need 2 systems in a small from though...!?

Nice one. I've done some reading online and am inclined to go that way due to the Kalis having a hiss problem which would definitely be problematic for mixing (can't tell if the noise is coming from less than ideal recordings or from the monitors). Kali has chipped in at the comment section and stated that the hiss is normal, so I'm guessing it would likely affect all units.. 



Either way, I'll test them out in a store before buying..

thegummy

octatonic said:

I'd argue that in an acoustically compromised room you actually want smaller drivers- certainly not anything over 6.5" or so.
Going for something wth larger drivers in an essentially untreated room will just highlight deficiencies in the room and give you loads of problems.

Agree with this.

I have 6 inch monitors but if I was buying again for this room I'd go smaller.

The unfortunate reality is that in this room the bass is just shockingly bad and will be for any speakers so I'd rather have less of it bouncing around.

The room acoustics thing is the huge problem for home studios. We now have as good, or better, technology that any of the top studios ever had but the room problem is big and very difficult to solve.

I even looked in to the very expensive and inconvenient idea of having a lot of bass traps around the room but when I researched deeply in to it I found that even putting a lot of money in to it and having a ridiculous amount of fiberglass in the room, it still only improves things a bit - it doesn't give the flat response a real studio has.

The only way I got over it was when I stopped caring about subtle quality as much as I used to. Now I only mix for musicality (fairly roughly) and then check it on various systems and environments adjusting if necessary. Years of doing that kind of teaches what things that cause problems elsewhere might sound like in my room or on headphones. But basically if the parts can all be heard as they should and the parts are in the correct order of loudness, I don't bother going any more precise.

If I ever have a potential hit album I can always have it mixed by a professional.

Branshen

Went to the best music shop in town and they specially set up HS7s, LSR305s and LP6s for me.

That Yamaha sounded great but not much difference from the Kalis, just a different signature. Both would be usable. The JBL didn't go as low as the other two and lacked a little subbass.

Both the JBL and Kalis have a slighttttt hiss if u really go close to it. I think the JBL is a little quieter than the kali. Yamaha was best in this department. 

The salesperson was really helpful and mentioned that the Adam a7x is similar in pricing to Yamaha and really good. Unfortunately, it was closing time by then so I didn't get to pester them to set some up.

Still deciding but have a better idea now. 

paulmapp8306

FWIW, Ive always used 5" speakers, and not great ones early on.  I had Sansom Resolves, the Event TR5s, the Adam A5x.

I thought I might need more bottom end, and went though auditioning HS7s, Adam A7xs and a couple more - but bass in my smallish room.... I ended up adding a Yam HS8 sub to the A5xs instead.  Lower Freq range then the 7" cones, more controllable, and I can turn them on and off to mix (mix check etc) as well as headphones.

Recently changed the A5xs for Neumann's - KH120s so again 5" Driver.

What size is the room you use?

Branshen

paulmapp8306 said:

FWIW, Ive always used 5" speakers, and not great ones early on.  I had Sansom Resolves, the Event TR5s, the Adam A5x.

I thought I might need more bottom end, and went though auditioning HS7s, Adam A7xs and a couple more - but bass in my smallish room.... I ended up adding a Yam HS8 sub to the A5xs instead.  Lower Freq range then the 7" cones, more controllable, and I can turn them on and off to mix (mix check etc) as well as headphones.

Recently changed the A5xs for Neumann's - KH120s so again 5" Driver.

What size is the room you use?

It's a fairly big living room, about 1000sq foot I'd guess but rectangular shaped and my set up is against the middle of a long end.

I ended up getting the Kali LP6s after auditioning JBLs, Yamaha and kalis. The store had Adams as well but  they were behind my budget. So far so good! 

The kalis have adjustment options so they can compensate by reducing bass when put near or up against a wall. Good feature! I definitely can hear the difference. By default it was boomy and uncontrolled, after adjustments, the bass is much more balanced. 

I can tell a sub would be helpful for ultra lows. Something for the future! 

octatonic

Branshen said:

paulmapp8306 said:

FWIW, Ive always used 5" speakers, and not great ones early on.  I had Sansom Resolves, the Event TR5s, the Adam A5x.

I thought I might need more bottom end, and went though auditioning HS7s, Adam A7xs and a couple more - but bass in my smallish room.... I ended up adding a Yam HS8 sub to the A5xs instead.  Lower Freq range then the 7" cones, more controllable, and I can turn them on and off to mix (mix check etc) as well as headphones.

Recently changed the A5xs for Neumann's - KH120s so again 5" Driver.

What size is the room you use?

It's a fairly big living room, about 1000sq foot I'd guess but rectangular shaped and my set up is against the middle of a long end.

I ended up getting the Kali LP6s after auditioning JBLs, Yamaha and kalis. The store had Adams as well but  they were behind my budget. So far so good! 

The kalis have adjustment options so they can compensate by reducing bass when put near or up against a wall. Good feature! I definitely can hear the difference. By default it was boomy and uncontrolled, after adjustments, the bass is much more balanced. 

I can tell a sub would be helpful for ultra lows. Something for the future! 

Can you pull your listening position into around 1/3rd (37% actually) of the length of the room?
I have a 6m x 4m mix room and my seat is 2.2m from one wall.

Branshen

octatonic said:

Branshen said:

paulmapp8306 said:

FWIW, Ive always used 5" speakers, and not great ones early on.  I had Sansom Resolves, the Event TR5s, the Adam A5x.

I thought I might need more bottom end, and went though auditioning HS7s, Adam A7xs and a couple more - but bass in my smallish room.... I ended up adding a Yam HS8 sub to the A5xs instead.  Lower Freq range then the 7" cones, more controllable, and I can turn them on and off to mix (mix check etc) as well as headphones.

Recently changed the A5xs for Neumann's - KH120s so again 5" Driver.

What size is the room you use?

It's a fairly big living room, about 1000sq foot I'd guess but rectangular shaped and my set up is against the middle of a long end.

I ended up getting the Kali LP6s after auditioning JBLs, Yamaha and kalis. The store had Adams as well but  they were behind my budget. So far so good! 

The kalis have adjustment options so they can compensate by reducing bass when put near or up against a wall. Good feature! I definitely can hear the difference. By default it was boomy and uncontrolled, after adjustments, the bass is much more balanced. 

I can tell a sub would be helpful for ultra lows. Something for the future! 

Can you pull your listening position into around 1/3rd (37% actually) of the length of the room?
I have a 6m x 4m mix room and my seat is 2.2m from one wall.

You know what. I'd say that it actually is at about 1/3rd the length. It's not in the exact middle despite what I said initially. Why is this desirable?

But then again, I am guessing that your seat is facing the 4m wall (and not the 6m wall), whereas I'm facing the long side of the room.