Tone wood debate (yet again, I know, I know, I know), and musical perception

merciful-evans · January 2020

OP: So now tone wood is dependent on decoding by tone ears? And anyone without tone ears is musically inferior?

One day there will be indisputable proof for or against tone wood. Whichever way it turns out, these proclamations will still be arrogant assertions.

Bridgehouse · January 2020

I would put a large amount of money on actually practising and playing having a much greater effect on things than wasting time on the internet discussing this yet again.

soma1975 · January 2020

merciful-evans said:

OP: So now tone wood is dependent on decoding by tone ears? And anyone without tone ears is musically inferior?

Literally nobody has said this.

crunchman · January 2020

guitars4you said:

crunchman said:

soma1975 said:

Agree with all that ^^ but in fairness there's shades of Strattiness.

I have two Strats and they do sound different. One is a lot darker sounding than the other - both plugged in and unplugged.

The darker sounding one is a rosewood board, and snappier sounding one is maple. This may or may not be coincidence. There are more differences than just the wood. The maple board is 50s construction with a skunk stripe, so there is more going on than just the material.

I bet if you hang both up, just tap the body of each guitar with your finger and listen to the pitch/note, I bet the darker of the 2 guitars has the lower pitch - Maybe not gospel, but often is

But yes a maple board will generally sound different to rosewood board - Are both yours alder bodies or is one ash

One of them is alder. The other is a Mexican Classic Series 50s. Not sure what wood they use on that.

AlexC · January 2020

Bottom line - probably matters if you’re a luthier or a manufacturer but as a player who gives a crap? Find a guitar that you like, that you’re comfortable with and gives a sound you find inspiring and play the thing.
And why are Les Pauls mentioned in these ‘tone wood’ threads more than any other model? Always seems to be some form of attrition or justification for liking/buying an LP to me. If you want one and you can afford it - great. Buy one.

I would take a wild guess that most people who are fanatical about music and play an instrument do have better trained ears than a casual listener.

Is there a debate about this? I’m guessing not.

Ddigger · January 2020

Yep, a quick scan of any guitar forum says that guitarists care most about:
name on headstock
who plays it
shape of headstock
colour
type of finish
neck profile
neck finish
name on amp/pedal and how re-assumingly expensive they are
Which end of their cable they should plug into the amp so that all the tone atoms flow correctly

A recent comment I saw was about a Fret King guitar and they said that they could never buy a guitar built by a guy named Trevor. Says it all really.

There was a thread on here a couple of years ago where someone was talking about the wood they had for a body (something rare, unheard off and exotic looking ( I seem to remember zebra like stripes). It also had a fancy neck and they raised the 'tone' question. Someone else pointed out they seemed to have spec'ed it completely on how it looked so why now wonder about what it sounded like.

Litterick · January 2020

AlexC said:
And why are Les Pauls mentioned in these ‘tone wood’ threads more than any other model? Always seems to be some form of attrition or justification for liking/buying an LP to me.

That question and others, are addressed in an article on Guitar.com:

In the electric guitar world, the vintage wood cult centres primarily on Gibson more than any other manufacturer. In fact, it’s almost exclusive to solidbodies of the 1950s rather than semis or 1960s solidbodies. Some of the wood Gibson was using during the 50s has become almost unattainable and, as a result, fetishised.

While it is difficult to imagine Leo Fender troubling himself with the finer points of lutherie, Gibson probably did care about the timber they were sawing. An article I found in a 1958 issue of The Wood-Worker begins:

In the Gibson research laboratory various woods are studied to determine their effect on the character and sustaining qualities of tone. With new adhesives developing rapidly for the entire wood-working industry, an understanding of their capabilities and methods of application is gained in the laboratory to better serve Gibson's drive for top quality end products.

Sync · January 2020

Poor quality woods and their construction (bonding/seasoning/joints) that result in odd rattles, vibrations and resonance variations on electric guitars makes a huge difference, especially with the neck and bridge/tremolo elements (bolt on, fixed/glued, routings etc) .

I have seen this on the really cheap ebay guitars etc pretty often where you just can't get them good for people, even with workshop time.

But even a good squier strat can be made to sound and play pretty much as indistinguishable from the usa variants or boutique strat copy manufacturers.

Fender and Gibson weren't thinking tonewood in the marketing sense 60 years ago. They were considering the right woods, climate and construction techniques along with the somewhat 'indirect incidental' but actually considerable direct impact (variances, accuracies and even errors) of their hand wound pickup manufacture.

'tonewood' or certainly the correct choice wood has a significant observable impact on acoustic orchestral string instruments (violin, cello etc) but as does the construction technique. Thus it does on acoustic / classical guitars.

Wood and construction technique are not mutually exclusive though.

soma1975 · January 2020

Wasn't the 50s Gibson stuff super old and already, for want of a better term, aged?

I thought it was their ancient stockpile for acoustics, mandos and the like. And so when it ran out there was no tones left for the rest of us.

NelsonP · January 2020

Old wood is definitely better, as @rlw 's friend knows very well ;-)

Tex Mexico · January 2020

To me, the argument is moot because nothing hinges on it.

If you think wood selection matters, you're in luck because there's endless choice of tonewoods these days.

If you don't, you're in luck because you can pick the prettiest and lightest woods safe in the knowledge your sound will be unaffected.

There is as far as I know nothing to prevent either camp from enjoying their respective positions. It's such a non-issue I can't believe anyone bothers to defend either opinion other than academically.

sev112 · January 2020

What really matters to the sound is where in the country / world you are !
because air density is a function of air pressure, air moisture and temperature, so you hear a different sound depending on what medium those sound waves are travelling though.

(only semi in jest, there is clearly some science in there)