How to choose a good ES style guitar

SunDevil

I know my way around solid body guitars nowadays - can pretty much identify a ‘good’en’ in 10 seconds flat, based on how it resonates (sustain, harmonic balance and complexity) when I strum it acoustically.

My track record with 335s isn’t so hot - they all resonate strongly and with a different frequency response to an LP for example and I can’t get a read on them  .. I’m thinking that I need a different set of measures to assess them by?

So has anyone got any tips / methods to identify a great ES? ..do they differ from what your looking for in a solid body?

cheers

Baz

noisepolluter

Following this thread as I’m going with a mate tomorrow to help him choose an Epi Dot as his first serious guitar. 

crunchman

As usual, go and play some is the best option.

I bought a 61 reissue 335 last year when they were massively reduced.  I tried it alongside a regular factory one, and there was a significant difference.  It was noticeably lighter, and it was a lot more responsive.  If there hadn't been a real difference I would have waited until I had the money and bought a factory one - rather than do the buy now pay later deal.

I think light weight is generally viewed as desirable.

I think it will depend on what you want to do with it.  If you want to play rock on it with a bit of gain, something less responsive might not be so bad.

Look out for the usual Gibson issues.  The big one is to check the neck angle is right - i.e. is the bridge sitting at the right height on the posts?

ICBM

Most importantly, don’t play them unplugged. It sounds odd and counterintuitive, when you’re used to being able to get a good idea of whether a solidbody resonates well by playing it unamplified, but a semi-acoustic doesn’t work like that... the crappy boxy ‘acoustic’ sound dominates and it sounds nothing like the plugged-in sound at all.

SunDevil

Thanks Gents!

Good tip @ICBM - I’ve pretty much sworn by judging electrics unplugged (seems to work quite well with acoustics too!) , so it hadn’t even occurred to me that it was a flawed approach with semis 

ESBlonde

All good info so far, if Gibsons are your thing then in addition to the neck angle the neck pocket/tenon joint can be critical. We all remember when Gibson posted that awful cut away photo of thier neck joint with huge gaps around the tennon. I'm not suggesting thats common now, but tap the back of the body at the neck heal with your nail and listen. Compare several to see if one has a particularly hollow sound, if so avoid that one. There is a subtle difference between a solid joint and a gappy joint but you don't want the latter.

Get used to what the ideal neck angle looks like and feels like, the playing response is subtley different when the string break angle over the bridge is about right and the risk of a collapsed bridge or bent pillars is much reduced for the mid/long term future.

The play it test is the thing that will tell you the most. Lots of things can be fixed easily but neck joint/angle is not a cheapie.

Funkfingers

Choose by playing lots of them until you find one that suits you, your amplification and pedals.

Changing pickups and controls in a 335 family guitar is considerably less straightforward than in a solidbody. Thus, it is a good idea to find a guitar that sounds the way you want without recourse to modifications. 

SunDevil said:

they all resonate strongly and with a different frequency response to a LP, for example

That is pretty much the raison d'être of the Gibson thinline series.

Ted McCarty's original idea was to present the advantages of an electric guitar with a solid centre block to buyers who wanted the traditional "jazz box" aesthetics. The coincident arrival of the P.A.F. humbucker was the icing on this particular cake.

SunDevil said:

do they differ from what your looking for in a solid body?

Under high gain, the onset of feedback from hollow and semi-hollow guitars is reached sooner. Your options are either to learn to control/exploit this or to grumble about it until you sell the guitar on at a loss. 

ICBM

Funkfingers said:

Changing pickups .. in a 335 family guitar is considerably less straightforward than in a solidbody.

That depends on whether you want to do it the 'proper' way or not .

Funkfingers

Wot? Knitting needles? Backstreet workshop?

Sassafras

What ICBM said, play it amplified.

Philly_Q

ICBM said:

Most importantly, don’t play them unplugged. It sounds odd and counterintuitive, when you’re used to being able to get a good idea of whether a solidbody resonates well by playing it unamplified, but a semi-acoustic doesn’t work like that... the crappy boxy ‘acoustic’ sound dominates and it sounds nothing like the plugged-in sound at all.

Very good point.

Exactly like the OP, I'm pretty good at telling if I'm going to like a solidbody by playing it unplugged.  But when I do the same with my CS-336 it sounds, frankly, dreadful - louder but sort of "dead", rubbery and thuddy on the wound strings, thin and plinky on the plain strings...

It's quite unnerving.  I'm not used to having to play electric guitars plugged in.

ICBM

Funkfingers said:

Wot? Knitting needles? Backstreet workshop?

Snip, solder and heatshrink in the pickup cavities .

Justifiable in many cases in my opinion... just don't cut the old wires too close to the pickup if you can avoid it, or it's difficult to rejoin them if you want to put them back.

I know it's not the 'proper' way, but frankly sometimes fishing the whole loom out of the guitar is a massive time-consuming pain in the backside for no benefit, especially if you have to undo a well-made braided-cable loom that's soldered to all the pots like in a Gibson ES, and replace it with plastic-covered cables.

thermionic

I've owned two Epi semi-solids, one was MUCH livelier than the other. When played at decent volume I could feel the air rushing out of the f-hole against my forearm. The other one, although a very nice guitar, never did that (and I gigged that one for several years).

simonhpieman

I will just add that, while not an issue with the specific 335, I had a great Hondo semi that was pretty weighty, probably in no small part to the neck being made of maple rather than mahogany. It sounded terrific, though. Smooth and rich with some great pups in it.

Don't always assume lighter is better and if you can, try one with maple and one with mahogany necks.

rossi

You could go for a Gibson  Midtown .A semi solid , carved out of a solid piece of mahogany and capped , like a Tele thinline or the 336  but with a flat cap rather than pressed or carved.My one is  superb and very versatile , but maybe I was lucky .Its a bit large for me .I would prefer a 336 but cant afford one .

Philly_Q

ICBM said:

Funkfingers said:

Wot? Knitting needles? Backstreet workshop?

Snip, solder and heatshrink in the pickup cavities .

Wow, there's something quite sleazy about that.  But in a good way.

rossi

ICBM said:

Funkfingers said:

Wot? Knitting needles? Backstreet workshop?

Snip, solder and heatshrink in the pickup cavities .

Justifiable in many cases in my opinion... just don't cut the old wires too close to the pickup if you can avoid it, or it's difficult to rejoin them if you want to put them back.

I know it's not the 'proper' way, but frankly sometimes fishing the whole loom out of the guitar is a massive time-consuming pain in the backside for no benefit, especially if you have to undo a well-made braided-cable loom that's soldered to all the pots like in a Gibson ES, and replace it with plastic-covered cables.

This what I did .As  long as you do it properly it is as good as any other method .The only thing is on say Epis and others Asian types  often the wiring.pots, switches  fails anyway so you end up fishing it all out  . It  certainly works on pickups though .I call it cut and shut .

MartinB

simonhpieman said:

I will just add that, while not an issue with the specific 335, I had a great Hondo semi that was pretty weighty, probably in no small part to the neck being made of maple rather than mahogany. It sounded terrific, though. Smooth and rich with some great pups in it.

Don't always assume lighter is better and if you can, try one with maple and one with mahogany necks.

I had a similar Hondo, mine came with fairly awful pickups but it was a nice sounding guitar once those were changed out. Heavy, but really nice and sustainy.