80s Jap les pauls prices

mark123

All 80s Tokai , greco , navigator etc
prices are £1800 to £2200 
Why not buy the genuine guitar they are imitating i.e USA Gibson for £1400 s/h, you still have enough for a set of boutique pick ups installed 
I can understand jap tokais for £500 and the orville that sold on here for £525 .
But when the copy is more than the genuine gibson , i dont get it..

brooom

I'm not very knowledgeable on tokais so can't really say much about that.

As for grecos, those price ranges you mention are reserved for guitars which were really high specs, certainly better then most Gibson of the era and probably a lot of the ones from today.  Built using very nice quality woods, craftsmanship, great hardware and electronics. And if you look at a high end super reals (EGF-1200 and EGF-1800) as well as high end mint collections (EG58-120, EG59-120 and EG60-180), these are not only great guitars which have become collectibles (much like various examples in the guitar industry), but also they were built in relatively small numbers.

As for Navigators, again I have very little experience with the ones from the 80s, although I know the top higher end models, were extremely well built. But I can tell you that if you look at N-LP-380 models from 2000-2005 or N-LP-480 models, from 2005-onwards, then you're looking at guitars built with honduran mahogany, american hard rock maple tops, great craftsmanship, great hardware, great pickups. Easily in the same camp as a good historic.

Now the psychological effect of not having Gibson written on the headstock might prevent some people from understanding what is otherwise a very logical concept. But that doesn't mean the guitars aren't worth it.

I'm lucky enough to own guitars from both camps including some nice historic reissues, some vintage examples and some of Japanese made instruments as well. They all have their place and it's great to have the choice.

tony99

Are there many 80s gibbos going for £1400?

Fortheloveofguitar

I’ve been after a 1980 Les Paul for so time. 80’s standards I’ve seen start at around £1950 right up to nearly 3k

mark123

i did not say 80s les paul for £1400 , but i've seen 90s and 2000s go for £11/£12/£1300 easy .
and if you are paitent you will pick a 80s one up on e bay for £1400

tony99

Fortheloveofguitar said:

I’ve been after a 1980 Les Paul for so time. 80’s standards I’ve seen start at around £1950 right up to nearly 3k

I played a lovely 1981 a few weeks ago, was a three piece body and very heavy but a lovely guitar. He's after £2.5k

mark123

tony99 said:

Fortheloveofguitar said:

I’ve been after a 1980 Les Paul for so time. 80’s standards I’ve seen start at around £1950 right up to nearly 3k

I played a lovely 1981 a few weeks ago, was a three piece body and very heavy but a lovely guitar. He's after £2.5k

and it will still be £2.5k in 6 months time 

John_A

Have a 1981 Tokai LS80 Les Paul that’s seen off every proper Gibson I’ve ever owned, As @brooom says, some of the value is because they are collectible, but some is simply they are great guitars.  The Orville you refer to that sold for 525, is probably pretty good, but the high end models are a big step up.

definitely note saying Japanese is better than USA, there are excellent examples of both

tony99

mark123 said:

tony99 said:

Fortheloveofguitar said:

I’ve been after a 1980 Les Paul for so time. 80’s standards I’ve seen start at around £1950 right up to nearly 3k

I played a lovely 1981 a few weeks ago, was a three piece body and very heavy but a lovely guitar. He's after £2.5k

and it will still be £2.5k in 6 months time 

Do you mean it won't lose its value or he won't sell it at that price?

Jez6345789

Mostly as the Japanese guitars are superior most of my better old Japanese guitars were better than an R8 or R9 in terms of sounding like an old Les Paul some did need a pickup upgrade as some Japanese are not perfect in that respect but the build quality is worth it so when you put a nice PAF in its game on. That said Japanese prices have risen probably faster than Gibsons as people caught on, back when I was buying from Japan in the early 2000's they were cheap in comparison to now. 

I have been house clearing the last week as we move more of our life to Spain and the ES345 is now up for sale and I got the Greco fired up for the first time in 6 months and was going to put it in the classified. But plugging it in reminded me it's probably as close to a golden age  Les Paul sound as I will ever get, it does that BloomTele on steroids tone and adjusting the tone and volume takes on a whole new perspective and brings forth so many old classic Les Paul tones, Besides being old wood whatever that means the DryZ pickups are just that little bit microphonic and make it something way above my paygrade. 

So it's not going anywhere as I think you could offer me 10k and I could not replace what it does in a US Guitar I tried the 60th anniversary recently and it was nice and better than some R9's I have tried over the years but still just a parody to me.

YMMV

mark123

tony99 said:

mark123 said:

tony99 said:

Fortheloveofguitar said:

I’ve been after a 1980 Les Paul for so time. 80’s standards I’ve seen start at around £1950 right up to nearly 3k

I played a lovely 1981 a few weeks ago, was a three piece body and very heavy but a lovely guitar. He's after £2.5k

and it will still be £2.5k in 6 months time 

Do you mean it won't lose its value or he won't sell it at that price?

It won't sell , Other owners of the same guitar see the price ,and say mine's worth that ,then their are loads of 80s guitars for £2.5k not selling on e bay.
It happened with yamaha sg1000s some collecter/ seller selling 80s ones for £1700 to 2k ++ ,not going to sell, a sg1000 is a £900/£1000 s/h guitar . 

John_A

There’s a ls120 on eBay for 2K at the moment, that’s a great price.  The 3 piece one, probably a ls50 is way overpriced 

tony99

mark123 said:

tony99 said:

mark123 said:

tony99 said:

Fortheloveofguitar said:

I’ve been after a 1980 Les Paul for so time. 80’s standards I’ve seen start at around £1950 right up to nearly 3k

I played a lovely 1981 a few weeks ago, was a three piece body and very heavy but a lovely guitar. He's after £2.5k

and it will still be £2.5k in 6 months time 

Do you mean it won't lose its value or he won't sell it at that price?

It won't sell , Other owners of the same guitar see the price ,and say mine's worth that ,then their are loads of 80s guitars for £2.5k not selling on e bay.
It happened with yamaha sg1000s some collecter/ seller selling 80s ones for £1700 to 2k ++ ,not going to sell, a sg1000 is a £900/£1000 s/h guitar . 

yeah it's true, he's had it listed for a while

Tenebrous

Jez6345789 said:

Mostly as the Japanese guitars are superior most of my better old Japanese guitars were better than an R8 or R9 in terms of sounding like an old Les Paul some did need a pickup upgrade as some Japanese are not perfect in that respect but the build quality is worth it so when you put a nice PAF in its game on. That said Japanese prices have risen probably faster than Gibsons as people caught on, back when I was buying from Japan in the early 2000's they were cheap in comparison to now. 

I have been house clearing the last week as we move more of our life to Spain and the ES345 is now up for sale and I got the Greco fired up for the first time in 6 months and was going to put it in the classified. But plugging it in reminded me it's probably as close to a golden age  Les Paul sound as I will ever get, it does that BloomTele on steroids tone and adjusting the tone and volume takes on a whole new perspective and brings forth so many old classic Les Paul tones, Besides being old wood whatever that means the DryZ pickups are just that little bit microphonic and make it something way above my paygrade. 

So it's not going anywhere as I think you could offer me 10k and I could not replace what it does in a US Guitar I tried the 60th anniversary recently and it was nice and better than some R9's I have tried over the years but still just a parody to me.

YMMV

That finish. Good lord.

professorben

mark123 said:

All 80s Tokai , greco , navigator etc
prices are £1800 to £2200 
Why not buy the genuine guitar they are imitating i.e USA Gibson for £1400 s/h, you still have enough for a set of boutique pick ups installed 
I can understand jap tokais for £500 and the orville that sold on here for £525 .
But when the copy is more than the genuine gibson , i dont get it..

I can understand buying a Japanese version of a LP at a comparative price due to, quality control and possible parts quality, which I feel ( not evidence based) would be higher on an 80’s Japanese guitar than a 70’s or 80’s Gibson. 

I bought that Orville from here and it’s an astoundingly nice guitar, beautiful sounding and with a slim enough neck that it’s manageable to transition to from my (built in the same factory and era) Ibanez. 

It’s horses for courses, I recently played an FGN ( sane factory again Fujigen) LP at Coda music and it was head and shoulders tone wise and playability above the Gibson models, and around 2.5k cheaper. 

Voxman

No question that some of these Japanese Les Pauls are lovely, with great build quality, finish & tone. I suspect that most  (but I'm not saying all) current owners of these various 'marques' probably obtained their guitars when they were at much lower prices in comparison to the Gibson equivalent.  If you are happy to buy these today at the price levels mentioned of £1800-2200 and you are not concerned with regards to non-Gibson logos or ease of resale, then by all means go for them.   

But for the vast majority of people the Gibson logo, regardless whether these might be perceived by some as inferior instruments by comparison, carries most weight because of the strength of brand, street cred, and the ready market that makes resale much easier whereas there are only a very small minority of  potential buyers that are prepared to pay these types of prices for non-Gibson Marques.  

Fifty9

Sold a 1980 Tokai LS-120 after getting my 17 R8. It was a great guitar and definitely had something extra due to its age and build quality but I don’t miss it even tho the r8 is brand new. They’re both fantastic tributes to the real thing and with the same pups & electrics in them you’d at best hear a minuscule difference tonally. So as ever it’s just a case of whatever floats your boat isn’t it.