In Ear Monitoring - setup for first timer .. recommendations and watchouts

JMP220478

Now doing lead vocals for a classic 5 piece guitar lineup - have shure se215s as only reference point of IEM style monitoring - using Behringer XR series mixer for driving  vocal only into Mackie Thumps at studio / rehearsal space .

I am looking at this approach to avoid classic pitfalls of losing pitch / killing voice competing with drummer n backline volumes - any advice appreciated ...  wired is an option initially .. 

Musicwolf

I just croak the occasional backing vocal but I recently discovered that a change in IEM (I was testing some KZ AS10s as a back up to my ACS custom moulds) completely screwed up my ability to sing in tune.  Following tips from t’internet / forums I’ve killed all the reverb in my monitor mix as well as reducing overall vol and vol of my own voice relative to the backing.  I’ve been running numerous tests and I’m now at the point that there is little difference between the different IEMs, headphones and monitoring with speakers.

it’s well worth putting in the effort to get your mix right (and check the results)

JMP220478

I saw the thread - what are you using to drive the headphones - and are you taking low end out of vocal  - backline will not be through pa - do you run some sort of room mic as a feed or rely on room volume alone 

Musicwolf

I drive the IEMs from an LD Systems HPA1 belt worn amp ( the singer has just purchased the same).  We are a 4 piece and, although only 2 x vocals, 2 x guitar and occasionally a kick run to FOH I take a DI from the bass and place a single over head on drums and run to mixer (Behringer XR18) so that I can have them in IEM mix.  No ambient mics but obviously there is spill from the vocal mics and OH.

I've been running tests on my vocal pitching by basically recording a series of notes, intervals and scales into Cubase using different IEMs, headphones etc at various volumes, rev, EQ settings.  Using Cubase's VariAudio I can check the results for pitch accuracy.

It is not possible to shelve the low end on the vocal purely for the IEM mix.  You can shelve individual channels but the results are common to FOH and aux mix.  I can EQ the overall aux mix (which I do).

At the moment I'm getting the best results with the vocal very low in the IEM mix (so it's a bit like the old folkie finger in the ear monitoring) and with no reverb in the IEM.  There is a huge experimental error being introduced - Practice.  I haven't really practiced my vocals as I would guitar so, by running all these tests, I'm probably seeing a dramatic improvement in my vocal technique (moving up from truly awful to just bad).  I’ve also go to replicate these conditions in a live situation (at the moment there’s no ambient noise and I’m using just a piano as a reference pitch).

I should point out that the singer has tried IEMs once, we’ve not spent much time on optimising his mix, and yet the improvements have been dramatic.  I convinced the IEMs are the way to go but it does require you to take getting the mix right seriously.

Roland

Musicwolf said:

... It is not possible to shelve the low end on the vocal purely for the IEM mix.  You can shelve individual channels but the results are common to FOH and aux mix.  I can EQ the overall aux mix (which I do)...

Are you sure about that? I EQ my aux mix to compensate for my hearing. It helps with setting my guitar tone knob. The EQ applies to everything in the mix, not just the vocals

Musicwolf

Roland said:

Musicwolf said:

... It is not possible to shelve the low end on the vocal purely for the IEM mix.  You can shelve individual channels but the results are common to FOH and aux mix.  I can EQ the overall aux mix (which I do)...

Are you sure about that? I EQ my aux mix to compensate for my hearing. It helps with setting my guitar tone knob. The EQ applies to everything in the mix, not just the vocals

I think that we're actually on the same page.  I can EQ my aux mix to be different to the FOH mix.  I can't EQ just my vocals differently in the aux mix i.e. there isn't a separate channel strip EQ for each aux bus.

PolarityMan

Musicwolf said:

Roland said:

Musicwolf said:

... It is not possible to shelve the low end on the vocal purely for the IEM mix.  You can shelve individual channels but the results are common to FOH and aux mix.  I can EQ the overall aux mix (which I do)...

Are you sure about that? I EQ my aux mix to compensate for my hearing. It helps with setting my guitar tone knob. The EQ applies to everything in the mix, not just the vocals

I think that we're actually on the same page.  I can EQ my aux mix to be different to the FOH mix.  I can't EQ just my vocals differently in the aux mix i.e. there isn't a separate channel strip EQ for each aux bus.

That's annoying I was about to investigate whether I could do post-aux send compression on the bass track and post aux send reverb on the vocal using our XR

I think the reverb I could get by sending to the FX bus pre fader and EQ?

Gulliver

I've just made the move to IEMs and it's been an absolute game changer for me...   I'm running a Yamaha Emx3000 powered mixer that currently only handles vocals.  I take a feed from Aux 1 to a Behringer P1 on my pedalboard and that goes into my in ears, via a TC Helicon Guitar and Headphones Cable - the bass player and drummer share a powered wedge coming from Aux 2.  I'm told the P1 doesn't have a proper limiter in it, but I'm the one in charge of the PA, and it's me who sings (drummer does a tiny bit of BVs) so the limiter is not much of an issue at the moment.  I might have to throw a mic in front of an amp as I can barely hear any guitar, but I'd only send it to the in-ears so might need an limiter on that... 

For the actual in-ears, I use a set of Mee Audio M6 Pros which are dirt cheap - and sound fine.  I went to in-ears because I looked at the cost of the P1, TC cable and in-ears - and it was actually less than a powered wedge.

I only really do pub gigs so it's probably overkill. but then again I take a fucking enormous pedalboard and run 2 amps in a wet/dry rig for a pub gig so overkill is par for the course!!

JMP220478

Gulliver said:

I've just made the move to IEMs and it's been an absolute game changer for me...   I'm running a Yamaha Emx3000 powered mixer that currently only handles vocals.  I take a feed from Aux 1 to a Behringer P1 on my pedalboard and that goes into my in ears, via a TC Helicon Guitar and Headphones Cable - the bass player and drummer share a powered wedge coming from Aux 2.  I'm told the P1 doesn't have a proper limiter in it, but I'm the one in charge of the PA, and it's me who sings (drummer does a tiny bit of BVs) so the limiter is not much of an issue at the moment.  I might have to throw a mic in front of an amp as I can barely hear any guitar, but I'd only send it to the in-ears so might need an limiter on that... 

For the actual in-ears, I use a set of Mee Audio M6 Pros which are dirt cheap - and sound fine.  I went to in-ears because I looked at the cost of the P1, TC cable and in-ears - and it was actually less than a powered wedge.

I only really do pub gigs so it's probably overkill. but then again I take a fucking enormous pedalboard and run 2 amps in a wet/dry rig for a pub gig so overkill is par for the course!!

How are you finding levels on P1 - I picked up one yesterday and decided not to take it to rehearsal last night as I couldnt get any serious volume off it - I was feeding it mono  for simplicity off a boss VE20 vocal processor pedal and it was a rush job as it arrived 20 mins before I needed to leave - using my SE215s atm .  

Gulliver

JMP220478 said:

Gulliver said:

I've just made the move to IEMs and it's been an absolute game changer for me...   I'm running a Yamaha Emx3000 powered mixer that currently only handles vocals.  I take a feed from Aux 1 to a Behringer P1 on my pedalboard and that goes into my in ears, via a TC Helicon Guitar and Headphones Cable - the bass player and drummer share a powered wedge coming from Aux 2.  I'm told the P1 doesn't have a proper limiter in it, but I'm the one in charge of the PA, and it's me who sings (drummer does a tiny bit of BVs) so the limiter is not much of an issue at the moment.  I might have to throw a mic in front of an amp as I can barely hear any guitar, but I'd only send it to the in-ears so might need an limiter on that... 

For the actual in-ears, I use a set of Mee Audio M6 Pros which are dirt cheap - and sound fine.  I went to in-ears because I looked at the cost of the P1, TC cable and in-ears - and it was actually less than a powered wedge.

I only really do pub gigs so it's probably overkill. but then again I take a fucking enormous pedalboard and run 2 amps in a wet/dry rig for a pub gig so overkill is par for the course!!

How are you finding levels on P1 - I picked up one yesterday and decided not to take it to rehearsal last night as I couldnt get any serious volume off it - I was feeding it mono  for simplicity off a boss VE20 vocal processor pedal and it was a rush job as it arrived 20 mins before I needed to leave - using my SE215s atm .  

I do have to run the levels quite high on the P1 and the desk to get it to a decent level. Maybe because my desk is designed to run the aux to powered wedges rather than the P1.  But it's loud enough for me to hear over my amps and the drummer. 

JMP220478

Im gonna spend some more time with it and the VE 20 to keep things as simple as poss for rehearsals . Are you running stereo ? 

siremoon

Musicwolf said:

Roland said:

Musicwolf said:

... It is not possible to shelve the low end on the vocal purely for the IEM mix.  You can shelve individual channels but the results are common to FOH and aux mix.  I can EQ the overall aux mix (which I do)...

Are you sure about that? I EQ my aux mix to compensate for my hearing. It helps with setting my guitar tone knob. The EQ applies to everything in the mix, not just the vocals

I think that we're actually on the same page.  I can EQ my aux mix to be different to the FOH mix.  I can't EQ just my vocals differently in the aux mix i.e. there isn't a separate channel strip EQ for each aux bus.

I've got an XR18 and I just map the vocal input to two separate channels, one for FOH and one for the IEM aux mix.  That way I can EQ the FOH and IEM vocal separately. 

Musicwolf

siremoon said:

I've got an XR18 and I just map the vocal input to two separate channels, one for FOH and one for the IEM aux mix.  That way I can EQ the FOH and IEM vocal separately. 

Good call . I've got free channels available.  At the moment I'm running endless tests to see where my problems lie and, so far, eq alone hasn't fixed it but if it helps, and the solution may be lots of small improvements, then good to know about the dual mapping trick.

JMP220478

@siremoon - I have access to an XR16 - how did you do the mapping to two channels and how are you driving the IEMs ? 

siremoon

JMP220478 said:

@siremoon - I have access to an XR16 - how did you do the mapping to two channels and how are you driving the IEMs ? 

You do the mapping on the input screen.  Set two channels to the same input.

I connect the IEMs via a Behringer P1