Neumann U87 For Recording Acoustic Guitar

CMW335

Anyone had any experience using a U87 for recording acoustic and what did you think of the results?

I currently have a set of Neumann KM184 stereo mics and a Shure KSM9 for vocals and wondering if it’s worth replacing these with the one mic (a U87). Relatively happy with the current mics but if I could get the same or better results with one mic it would be easier.

I would always be recording guitar and vocal separate 

Winny_Pooh

If I had to pick one mic for vocals and acoustic as an upgrade I'd rather get a decent U47 clone like this. 

https://www.dv247.com/en_GB/GBP/Golden-Age-Project-GA-47-Roehrenmikrofon/art-REC0013566-000?campaign=GShopping/UK&ProgramUUID=HADAqJarPzAAAAFlea9yjI.G&gclid=Cj0KCQiAv8PyBRDMARIsAFo4wK0ZI06CmvMYJZg2P66FmFtOENJGbVSbrxFiSvOtE_xnmFRTGS2av-UaAvqPEALw_wcB

Stuckfast

I have a couple of U87s. They are great vocal mics, especially on male vocals. They *can* be great for acoustic as well but they tend to emphasise the mid-range, which can be a good or bad thing. If you were recording, say, a Taylor, I'd imagine that a U87 would help to stop it sounding too thin. If you were recording a ladder-braced O model played aggressively with a pick, it might all get a bit hard and pointy-sounding.

Incidentally, almost no modern U47 copies are 'clones' in any meaningful sense of the word. A lot of the U47's sound comes from the very unusual VF14 valve and the transformer that Neumann used it with. Those are no longer available so copies always use an entirely different circuit based around some cheap and widely available valve like the ECC83.

octatonic

I have a couple of U87's, as well as some KM84's & 184's and a few other Neumanns.

What U87 are you talking about?
The modern U87ai, or a vintage U87?
They are fairly different.

I'll be honest and say I don't use a U87 on acoustic guitar very often, certainly not the ai.
The KM84's get used most of the time, or my Josephson C42's.

LDC's work in situations where you want less top end and more midrange.
What guitar are you using?
If you have a very bright acoustic tone or are recording in a bright sounding room then an LDC can work.

The U87 is a fantastic mic though- I'd suggest buying one for use on vocals but continue to use your 184's on the guitar.
Also check out the Schoeps CMC641.

What preamps are you using?

Stuckfast

I do use LDCs quite a lot for acoustic guitar but it would usually be an AKG C414. The old silver EB models have a really nice sizzle to them that works well on acoustic, but they are silly money nowadays -- however -- if you are looking at new mics check out the Austrian Audio OC series. Those are based on the same capsule design used in the 414EB and although they are not copies of that mic they have similar strengths.

CMW335

Thanks guys,

@octatonic Guitar is a 69 J200, and style is pretty much strumming the limited number of patterns I made up with my own unnatural and out of time rhythm. Not much picking at all.

Mics going into focusrite clarett 8 pre x and recording with Logic Pro x on Mac. U87 and KM184s would be nice yes but budget wise at the moment it’s one or the other unfortunately although I do have a nice 1964 Vox AC4 to trade with.
 
Yes was ideally a Vintage model I was looking.

@Stuckfast ;@Winny_Pooh Thanks Guys will check those others out too.

octatonic

CMW335 said:

Thanks guys,

@octatonic Guitar is a 69 J200, and style is pretty much strumming the limited number of patterns I made up with my own unnatural and out of time rhythm. Not much picking at all.

Mics going into focusrite clarett 8 pre x and recording with Logic Pro x on Mac. U87 and KM184s would be nice yes but budget wise at the moment it’s one or the other unfortunately although I do have a nice 1964 Vox AC4 to trade with.
 
Yes was ideally a Vintage model I was looking.

@Stuckfast ;@Winny_Pooh Thanks Guys will check those others out too.

OK, keep the 184's, imho.
I'd possibly look at upgrading your preamps.

CMW335

octatonic said:

CMW335 said:

Thanks guys,

@octatonic Guitar is a 69 J200, and style is pretty much strumming the limited number of patterns I made up with my own unnatural and out of time rhythm. Not much picking at all.

Mics going into focusrite clarett 8 pre x and recording with Logic Pro x on Mac. U87 and KM184s would be nice yes but budget wise at the moment it’s one or the other unfortunately although I do have a nice 1964 Vox AC4 to trade with.
 
Yes was ideally a Vintage model I was looking.

@Stuckfast ;@Winny_Pooh Thanks Guys will check those others out too.

OK, keep the 184's, imho.
I'd possibly look at upgrading your preamps.

Thanks, what would you suggest re preamps and would you say I should be looking to upgrade the 8 pre x completely?

octatonic

CMW335 said:

octatonic said:

CMW335 said:

Thanks guys,

@octatonic Guitar is a 69 J200, and style is pretty much strumming the limited number of patterns I made up with my own unnatural and out of time rhythm. Not much picking at all.

Mics going into focusrite clarett 8 pre x and recording with Logic Pro x on Mac. U87 and KM184s would be nice yes but budget wise at the moment it’s one or the other unfortunately although I do have a nice 1964 Vox AC4 to trade with.
 
Yes was ideally a Vintage model I was looking.

@Stuckfast ;@Winny_Pooh Thanks Guys will check those others out too.

OK, keep the 184's, imho.
I'd possibly look at upgrading your preamps.

Thanks, what would you suggest re preamps and would you say I should be looking to upgrade the 8 pre x completely?

So an audio interface is essentially 3 parts.

1. preamps
2. conversion quality
3. latency

If you are happy with 2 and 3 then yes I'd just look at adding a decent outboard preamp or two.
Nothing wrong with the Clarett- they sound decent but the preamps are not class leading.

CMW335

octatonic said:

CMW335 said:

octatonic said:

CMW335 said:

Thanks guys,

@octatonic Guitar is a 69 J200, and style is pretty much strumming the limited number of patterns I made up with my own unnatural and out of time rhythm. Not much picking at all.

Mics going into focusrite clarett 8 pre x and recording with Logic Pro x on Mac. U87 and KM184s would be nice yes but budget wise at the moment it’s one or the other unfortunately although I do have a nice 1964 Vox AC4 to trade with.
 
Yes was ideally a Vintage model I was looking.

@Stuckfast ;@Winny_Pooh Thanks Guys will check those others out too.

OK, keep the 184's, imho.
I'd possibly look at upgrading your preamps.

Thanks, what would you suggest re preamps and would you say I should be looking to upgrade the 8 pre x completely?

So an audio interface is essentially 3 parts.

1. preamps
2. conversion quality
3. latency

If you are happy with 2 and 3 then yes I'd just look at adding a decent outboard preamp or two.
Nothing wrong with the Clarett- they sound decent but the preamps are not class leading.

Any particular models you would recommend?

octatonic

CMW335 said:

octatonic said:

CMW335 said:

octatonic said:

CMW335 said:

Thanks guys,

@octatonic Guitar is a 69 J200, and style is pretty much strumming the limited number of patterns I made up with my own unnatural and out of time rhythm. Not much picking at all.

Mics going into focusrite clarett 8 pre x and recording with Logic Pro x on Mac. U87 and KM184s would be nice yes but budget wise at the moment it’s one or the other unfortunately although I do have a nice 1964 Vox AC4 to trade with.
 
Yes was ideally a Vintage model I was looking.

@Stuckfast ;@Winny_Pooh Thanks Guys will check those others out too.

OK, keep the 184's, imho.
I'd possibly look at upgrading your preamps.

Thanks, what would you suggest re preamps and would you say I should be looking to upgrade the 8 pre x completely?

So an audio interface is essentially 3 parts.

1. preamps
2. conversion quality
3. latency

If you are happy with 2 and 3 then yes I'd just look at adding a decent outboard preamp or two.
Nothing wrong with the Clarett- they sound decent but the preamps are not class leading.

Any particular models you would recommend?

For acoustic guitar- yeah sure.
API 512c, API 512V, Burl B1, Phoenix DRS1R, Groove Tubes ViPre, Grace 501.

CMW335

octatonic said:

CMW335 said:

octatonic said:

CMW335 said:

octatonic said:

CMW335 said:

Thanks guys,

@octatonic Guitar is a 69 J200, and style is pretty much strumming the limited number of patterns I made up with my own unnatural and out of time rhythm. Not much picking at all.

Mics going into focusrite clarett 8 pre x and recording with Logic Pro x on Mac. U87 and KM184s would be nice yes but budget wise at the moment it’s one or the other unfortunately although I do have a nice 1964 Vox AC4 to trade with.
 
Yes was ideally a Vintage model I was looking.

@Stuckfast ;@Winny_Pooh Thanks Guys will check those others out too.

OK, keep the 184's, imho.
I'd possibly look at upgrading your preamps.

Thanks, what would you suggest re preamps and would you say I should be looking to upgrade the 8 pre x completely?

So an audio interface is essentially 3 parts.

1. preamps
2. conversion quality
3. latency

If you are happy with 2 and 3 then yes I'd just look at adding a decent outboard preamp or two.
Nothing wrong with the Clarett- they sound decent but the preamps are not class leading.

Any particular models you would recommend?

For acoustic guitar- yeah sure.
API 512c, API 512V, Burl B1, Phoenix DRS1R, Groove Tubes ViPre, Grace 501.

Thanks and sorry to be a pest but assume there’s an alternative I should consider for vocals?

Winny_Pooh

Nothing wrong with any advice you've received. It's really about what your preferences are. I'd always spend money on mics before preamps. I don't like SDCs as they have too much high end and capture transients Too well. Now if you are recording a pristine bluegrass instrument then fine (but even then valve km54s are preferred over km84s)

However, if you like the acoustic sounds on Beck's Sea Change, Gillian Welch, Ryan Adams albums or Ray Lamontagne's God willin the creek don't rise, then you want a valve LDC. And the u47 & u67 and decent clones are the classics for that tone. 

Stuckfast

If you do buy a fancy-pants preamp to use with your Clarett, make sure you get one with a fader or output attenuator. The 'sound' of preamps only really comes out when you drive them pretty hard, and if you do that without dropping the output level you'll clip the inputs of the Clarett.