500 rack stuff?

spark240

Im thinking of getting a slightly better Mic pre than that in my Presonus mixer, some that have been suggest fit in one of these 500 rack thingies...

Are they all the same ?....they seem to differ in price , and most hold between 2 & 5 units...what should I be looking to pay for such animals ?

oaf

I'd be interested in this too, particularly some of the DIY options. Looks like it could be fun.

octatonic

I have a bit of 500 series gear.
DON'T buy a cheap enclosure (Midas, Lindell etc)
They can be noisy and don't have the build quality you need for this platform.

Get a 6/8/10 slot rack.
I have a pair of Rupert Neve R10's- they are the best bang for the buck.
They do an excellent 6 slot rack.

The API 6 slot lunchbox is a solid purchase too.
If you want a high quality 2 slot rack then Empirical Labs make one but it is the same price as the API 6 slot..

What sort of preamp do you want to get?

spark240

well after some research...and without spending tons...I believe that a Warm audio unit might be an upgrade form the ( already reasonable) Presonus Preamps in my Interface....I don't want to spend a fortune...just upgrade a bit.

I could just get a Warm audio 1U rack unit ?

octatonic

spark240 said:

well after some research...and without spending tons...I believe that a Warm audio unit might be an upgrade form the ( already reasonable) Presonus Preamps in my Interface....I don't want to spend a fortune...just upgrade a bit.

I could just get a Warm audio 1U rack unit ?

Not a massive difference if I am honest.
Warm Audio are fine- they are good quality and they are reliable but from prosumer to semi-professional isn’t a massive jump, compared to something like a real API 512c or a proper Never 1073.

Also, don't buy new- there are LOADS of used bargains.
Find something that is a professional quality level and buy it, regardless of form factor- but make sure it is a bargain.
If you need to buy a 500 series chassis then get a good one.

FWIW I bought a couple of Burl B1's and a Phoenix DRS1R (500 series format) for about £450 a piece.

Adji

I've just started this journey myself.

I'd definitely favour Octatonics opinion over my own, but here is my two cents.

Chassis:
I settled on the Midas L6, here is why...
Undoubtedly the API an others have significantly better performance and are more well constructed. that said I was surprised at the construction of the Midas, its solid. The power supply does have an unusual high pitched noise but so far this has not made its way into the audio path. I've read online that sometimes this gets quieter the more current is consumed (the more units you use), but I can't test this theory just yet.
Your mileage may vary.

Preamp:
I did a lot of online research but was only able to physically test a couple. I settled one a Phoenix DRS1R like Octatonic. However, the first one arrived broken and the second one broke within an hour or two. Just unlucky I'm sure, but it has put me off getting a third. the retailer was really helpful, refund, no problem.
When it was working the DRS sounded pretty good. Not HUGELY different to the preamps in the Audient, but noticeable.

So I began again and this time cam across the IGS NE573, which I think is quite new and didn't come up in my research before Christmas.

I managed to get hold of one and I have to say I'm super impressed. the difference is MUCH more noticeable. Vocals (which is all I've been able to test it on thus far) are significantly clearer, words more intelligible and just has that 'studio' sound. Because of the design it is also much easier to drive and get some of that transformer 'gooeyness.'
The build quality is fantastic.
I'm really impressed with IGS. I'll be adding more of their 500 series in the near future.

Hope this helps.

spark240

Thanks for the info  guys...can I check...if I go into a Mic Pre...do I still go on into my mixer as normal...does that mean Im using 2 Preamps?

octatonic

spark240 said:

Thanks for the info  guys...can I check...if I go into a Mic Pre...do I still go on into my mixer as normal...does that mean Im using 2 Preamps?

You do not want to run two preamps in series.
Can you go into your mixer line in, rather than mic in?

spark240

octatonic said:

spark240 said:

Thanks for the info  guys...can I check...if I go into a Mic Pre...do I still go on into my mixer as normal...does that mean Im using 2 Preamps?

You do not want to run two preamps in series.
Can you go into your mixer line in, rather than mic in?

I can...thanks !

octatonic

spark240 said:

octatonic said:

spark240 said:

Thanks for the info  guys...can I check...if I go into a Mic Pre...do I still go on into my mixer as normal...does that mean Im using 2 Preamps?

You do not want to run two preamps in series.
Can you go into your mixer line in, rather than mic in?

I can...thanks !

Thank of it like running two overdrive pedals into one another... but bad.

Stuckfast

octatonic said:

DON'T buy a cheap enclosure (Midas, Lindell etc)
They can be noisy and don't have the build quality you need for this platform.

Agree 100 percent. We had a Lindell one at the studio and it simply crapped out with certain combinations of modules.

With the whole outboard preamp thing, though -- if you want clean and pure, that's almost certainly what your audio interface already gives you. Buy an outboard preamp if you want something that can be overdriven for transformer saturation, and make sure it has an output attenuator so you don't clip the interface on the way back in.

Never understood why no-one makes an audio interface with a 'character' preamp built in.

spark240

Now Im wondering if Id be better spending on a new Mic....Im using an SE condensor at the moment... 

Stuckfast

The answer to all of these questions is invariably: spend the money on proper acoustic treatment in your recording space.

thegummy

spark240 said:

Now Im wondering if Id be better spending on a new Mic....Im using an SE condensor at the moment... 

IMO definitely a mic over a preamp every day.

But what I'd say to you would be to seek out some audio examples comparing different preamps and see what you think of the difference between them (if you haven't already. I could even send you a few links if you want it to be blind).

Someone could come away from many forums, online articles etc. expecting the difference between preamps to be massive but in reality any differences are very subtle. I would expect a lot of people unable to tell them apart in a blind test.

Whereas I think if you compared two mics that were similarly far apart in the range, there would be a more obvious difference (although less of a difference than I would have expected in my early days of recording).

spark240

Ok, so lets talk mic upgrades, probably not too difficult from the SE Z3300a....?.....Next level mic ideas ?

Stuckfast

For recording what?

spark240

Stuckfast said:

For recording what?

Mainly vocal 

octatonic

spark240 said:

Now Im wondering if Id be better spending on a new Mic....Im using an SE condensor at the moment... 

A microphone will usually make more of an impact than a different mic preamp.

You should always target the weakest area- if you have a decent interface preamp and no decent mics then you should buy a microphone.
If you have some pro level microphones (plural) and want to upgrade from a decent interface preamp then that is a good idea.
It is best to spend your money on transducers and acoustic treatment before anything else.
Microphones, monitors and making the room sound good.
Everything else can happen over time.

Technique trumps almost all of these though- you can't buy your way into having a good recording.
It takes time and work.

spark240

octatonic said:

spark240 said:

Now Im wondering if Id be better spending on a new Mic....Im using an SE condensor at the moment... 

A microphone will usually make more of an impact than a different mic preamp.

You should always target the weakest area- if you have a decent interface preamp and no decent mics then you should buy a microphone.
If you have some pro level microphones (plural) and want to upgrade from a decent interface preamp then that is a good idea.
It is best to spend your money on transducers and acoustic treatment before anything else.
Microphones, monitors and making the room sound good.
Everything else can happen over time.

Technique trumps almost all of these though- you can't buy your way into having a good recording.
It takes time and work.

Ok cool...so Im happy with monitors, Im working on room treatment now....mic upgrades ?....what you reckon.....? 

Stuckfast

Do you record lots of different vocalists, or mainly yourself? If the latter then it's a question of finding the right mic for you -- what sort of voice do you have? High, low, nasal, screechy, soft...?

octatonic

spark240 said:

octatonic said:

spark240 said:

Now Im wondering if Id be better spending on a new Mic....Im using an SE condensor at the moment... 

A microphone will usually make more of an impact than a different mic preamp.

You should always target the weakest area- if you have a decent interface preamp and no decent mics then you should buy a microphone.
If you have some pro level microphones (plural) and want to upgrade from a decent interface preamp then that is a good idea.
It is best to spend your money on transducers and acoustic treatment before anything else.
Microphones, monitors and making the room sound good.
Everything else can happen over time.

Technique trumps almost all of these though- you can't buy your way into having a good recording.
It takes time and work.

Ok cool...so Im happy with monitors, Im working on room treatment now....mic upgrades ?....what you reckon.....? 

Mics before preamps certainly.