Returning non-faulty item/Restocking Fees

EdGrip

Plus, real men buy second-hand.

EdGrip

"Why are lazy people buying online? You can come into a store and get great service!"

"I prefer to buy online; for the most part I dislike the service in store."

"Is it any wonder you get bad service when people buy stuff online?"

RaymondLin

Whilst I love to support my local shops, even if it's a little more expensive, I find more often the case it is not just a little more expensive, it is a lot more expensive, and yes, I know the reasons.  Especially if I know exactly what I want and I have a 7 day DSR to fall back on, I would just go ahead and buy it online and get it the best price that I can.  There are apps these days that help you with this (Red Laser) which makes the whole thing really easy.  There are plugins that can compare the prices on Amazon and tell if you what you are looking at is the best price.  There are websites that tracks the historical data of prices of items in Amazon (Camelcamelcamel).  Everything is geared towards saving money so it is hard to resist the savings when they make it so easy.  I wouldn't mind spending £11 on something that I can find online for £10 the difference is hundreds or even thousands pounds then there is no way I can use "supporting local stores" as a reason to buy there.

 

 

<?xml:namespace prefix = o />  I've never really had bad services when buying online.  Amazon is great, most of my shopping is done through them.  The communication between me and my dealer in America for one of my guitar was fantastic, they did everything I asked for prior to shipping (free new strings, put them in for me and a set up prior to shipping – perfect intonation).  My other PRS from Guitar Village they had forgot the trust rod key but after a phone call they sent that to me next day with special delivery, if it was a local store I would probably had to drive in, park up, and waste an hour on Saturday to get it.    <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />     When I eventually get pedals, I'll probably get them from a mix of different places (Amazon, Thomann's, guitarguitar, Andertons).  My local stores just wouldn't stock everything that I want, it is not only cheaper, it is more convenient just to buy it from places that has it in stock and sent to me next day.   Also these days for an independent to survive they need a strong online presence, it is no good anymore just to rely on local customers.  Even with musical instruments, the consistency these days are much better than they were 30 years ago.  CNC machines have meant every carve is identical to the next one so the bar has been set higher even for cheaper made far east instruments.  Which means buying blind online is not as big of a problem as before, add to the DSR you have your backside covered.  As a consumer, this is gold.     There is a music shop where I live, it's an independent that is tiny, no online presence, the shop is very untidy, it frankly looks like a tip.  Although the prices are RRP (which I can live with most of the time), their stock is very limited in both range and availability.  The guy who runs it is nice and my friend knows him well and he often go in for a chat.  But if you want anything remotely high end, they just don't stock it.  Gibson Les Paul? Nope, American Strat? Nope.  PRS? Not even the SE, Core PRS is out of the question, there are no Taylor, Martin, period.  As much as I wanted to buy something from them, sometimes they just don’t have what you want and these days I can pull out my phone and within a minute I can find what I want for sale online.    So in my position, if the nearest music store is over an hour from my home, it is much easier to do my research online and buy something than spend £20 in petrol and parking to go to a store to buy it in person.

RaymondLin

EdGrip said:

I agree with David.

I'm sure we've been through this before here, but I prefer to be left alone. By the time I get to the point of dropping cash on a piece of musical gear, chances are I know more about it than the bloke in the shop. Whenever necessity finds me in a shop, and a salesperson immediately comes over with a smile and a "are you okay, sir? Do you need any help?" as per staff training, in my head I think "yes, go away, leave me alone." They're only asking because sales-driven training insists that they do, and I'd prefer that they didn't. It's a weird dance neither of us wants to be doing. Match that to the fact that we both know he's not exactly an impartial observer - even the truly good ones, and they are hard to find.

Non-musical gear? Faggaddabaht it. Try getting straight, knowledgeable talk out of anyone in Jessops in 2011. Try getting it from anyone in Currys now. (I mean, why do people buy anything in Currys? The place is like purgatory! You feel like you've somehow been ripped off the minute you go through the doors, and yet somehow that monster is still alive.)

How are we supposed to have any faith in high-street retail when there's commission and daily, weekly, monthly targets for staff? 

No, I'll stick to my online buying, thanks. If the whole of the weird hell-on-earth that is High Street Retail can only justify itself by mumbling "well, you get to try the product and see if you like it...", it's probably time it had a look at what it offers.

The bit about non-musical gear is so true, actually anything electronic I would do my research for days if not weeks prior first.  By the time I am ready to buy it, when I step through the store (even PC World/Currys!), I know what I want and ask for it.  I don't ask for an opinion because frankly I don't want it.  I only go there if I check online prices are same as Amazon and they have it in stock in my local store and I reserve online, buy through Quidco (3% cash back) then pick it up after work.  You get the best of online prices, same day product.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

 

When I buy camera gear for example, I doubt the sales person in Jessops or even a good independent would know more about it than I do.  My research not only entails specs and youtube videos, it most often include asking online community for their opinion.  At the end you get both critical reviews and user reviews, plus balance it with what my needs are, with the spec, I am armed with pretty much everything there is to know about said product.  I would know about the quirks of the item from the users, I would know about any firmware updates if it is needed, I would know if I am looking for new or old stock and which is better etc.

Blueingreen

The idea that buyers will take the piss under the distance selling regs seems to me a peculiarly British one.  Companies in Germany, France and the US have no problems offering generous no-questions-asked return periods that go beyond any statutory obligations.

It's one reason Thomann have had far more of my business than any British retailer over the past few years.  I don't make a habit of returning stuff, but on the couple of occasions I have the attitudes of Thomann and British companies have been night and day.  With Thomann, it's right, this didn't work out for you, how can we facilitate your return with minimal fuss? We hope you're not disappointed and will shop here again (which I will).  With Brits the shiny, happy guy who sold you an expensive item is now a grouchy dick who regards you as a nuisance, who will try to put small impediments in the way of an easy return, and doesn't seem to care whether you want to deal with his company again (and of course his attitude has ensured that you never will).

Gagaryn

Blueingreen said:

The idea that buyers will take the piss under the distance selling regs seems to me a peculiarly British one.  Companies in Germany, France and the US have no problems offering generous no-questions-asked return periods that go beyond any statutory obligations.

It's one reason Thomann have had far more of my business than any British retailer over the past few years.  I don't make a habit of returning stuff, but on the couple of occasions I have the attitudes of Thomann and British companies have been night and day.  With Thomann, it's right, this didn't work out for you, how can we facilitate your return with minimal fuss? We hope you're not disappointed and will shop here again (which I will).  With Brits the shiny, happy guy who sold you an expensive item is now a grouchy dick who regards you as a nuisance, who will try to put small impediments in the way of an easy return, and doesn't seem to care whether you want to deal with his company again (and of course his attitude has ensured that you never will).

To be fair things are getting better here. Andertons, for example, give you a 30 day exchange period on stuff, which I have just used for the first time - bought a Supernatural and after a bit of a honeymoon period I decided it wasn't what I was after - contacted them two weeks after I got it and they were fine about exchanging it for something else. 

And despite bricks and mortar shops having higher overheads than online they will generally price match UK online prices if you ask nicely - I often do that, despite wanting to support local places, I'm not in a financial position to give them any more money than I have to. In fact if you get to know folk in a decent local shop you will often get better deals than you can get online - Reddog for example are excellent at that in my experience - I got a cracking deal on a Marr Jag. 

Coda are another place that go out of their way to keep customers coming back - I have a mate who has GAS like you wouldn't believe, he had bought a few used guitars that he was bored of from Coda that wouldn't sell quickly - that mega expensive Classical I listed in the classifieds for example, and they bought them back as PX for almost as much as they sold them for. Way better than the approx half selling price you can expect for most PX's.

And i have no idea what has happened to the formatting in this reply!

EdGrip

It's best not to try to understand the formatting on this forum. Just roll with it.

Dave_Mc

EdGrip said:

I agree with David.

I'm sure we've been through this before here, but I prefer to be left alone. By the time I get to the point of dropping cash on a piece of musical gear, chances are I know more about it than the bloke in the shop. Whenever necessity finds me in a shop, and a salesperson immediately comes over with a smile and a "are you okay, sir? Do you need any help?" as per staff training, in my head I think "yes, go away, leave me alone." They're only asking because sales-driven training insists that they do, and I'd prefer that they didn't. It's a weird dance neither of us wants to be doing. Match that to the fact that we both know he's not exactly an impartial observer - even the truly good ones, and they are hard to find.

Agreed.

Don't get me wrong- there's a happy medium with service. I've been in music shops before as well where I sauntered around for maybe 20 minutes when I wanted to try something and the staff seemed to be trying its best to ignore me (and there were no other customers in the shop), and that's no good, either. ) But once I've been plugged in, I prefer to be left alone.

EdGrip said:

Plus, real men buy second-hand.

That's actually what I was going to bring up- I buy most of my stuff online, but I do buy most of it new. I wonder how many of the people taking the moral high ground about not buying from e.g. Thomann actually buy stuff second-hand? I'm not saying I'm amazing, but at least the way I do it the money is making its way back into the musical instrument industry.

Maybe the people who are saying you should support the little guy aren't the ones who buy second-hand, I dunno- and if so, that's fair enough. But I know from a cursory look round this forum (and most guitar forums), most of the regulars seem to buy an awful lot of their stuff second-hand.

RaymondLin said:

(1st post, too long to quote)

Good points, agreed.

The other thing I'll say is, I don't go just with the cheapest price- I continue to buy from Thomann because both their prices are good and their service. I bought once from MusicStore, for example, and really did not like their service and haven't bought from them again.

I'd also add that I've bought from several English-based online stores as well and have been very impressed with their service, too.

Dave_Mc

Blueingreen said:

The idea that buyers will take the piss under the distance selling regs seems to me a peculiarly British one.  Companies in Germany, France and the US have no problems offering generous no-questions-asked return periods that go beyond any statutory obligations.

Agreed. As I said above, I'm not saying some customers might not take the piss- but I don't normally agree with letting the dicks spoil it for everyone else. Also, I think spacecadet and other apologists for local shops are sort of being slightly unfair with their anecdotal evidence- they're taking the best examples of stores and comparing them to the worst examples of customers. Of course if you do that you'll probably think DSRs are far too generous!

For example, once here I went to a shop and found a really nice Tokai Strat. The price was very good (£275 IIRC) and I asked the guy in the shop about it. "It's new, though we've had it in the shop for a while," he said (this is years ago so that's paraphrased- he definitely implied it was new/not second-hand).

I'm pretty cautious so I went away to think about it.

A few days later I made the trip back (about a 120 mile round trip, and a pretty awkward drive as there isn't a motorway the whole way) to buy the thing. There were different assistants in the shop that day.

I asked to try the Tokai strat.

Somehow (as I said, several years ago, I forget exactly what happened but I remember the gist), the other assistants told me it was second hand, and that the other shop guy was selling it on behalf of his mate.

I said I'd been told last day I was in it was new. The other shop assistants looked at each other and sort of rolled their eyes... apparently this wasn't the first time that other guy had pulled a stunt like that.

Needless to say, I wasn't best pleased. What was a good price for something new was a so-so price for something used, and I'd basically made a one-errand long trip for nothing. I didn't buy it.

Anyway, my point being that not all local shops are good. I certainly wouldn't say that all shops are like that, of course, but it happens. I'm merely making the point that if the anti-DSR people think it's ok to bring up the worst examples of customers to argue against generous DSRs, I think it's ok for me to bring up the worst examples of local shops to argue in favour of them. )

Obviously that's an extreme example- but I've also been in shops where I've got what I'd call "bad" advice (or overheard other customers being offered bad advice) to try to get a sale, or had salespeople argue with me over stuff I was right about (as EdGrip says, odds are I know more than the sales assistant by the time I'm thinking of buying something, at least when it comes to guitar gear). Now, I'd also agree that on other occasions I've had good advice from shops too- again, every situation is different, but acting like every local shop is good and every customer bad is, if you ask me anyway, a bit biased.