Wilkinson bridge - is this right?

davros

Just received a Wilkinson WVP 2-point trem. My understanding is the 2 point bridges should have a 'knife edge', i.e. a single point of contact between the bridge and the bridge post.

On this bridge, one of the contact points is pretty flat - maybe 1.5mm, rather than a point. As a result, the contact point doesn't sit properly in the post, and I can imagine it not performing particularly well.

My question is - is this fine, and I should stop worrying and just fit it, or send it back and look for something else?

Jeremiah

This doesn't look right to me - I have a similar Wilkinson bridge (not sure if it's the exact same model) and the part where it contacts the post definitely looks thinner than in your picture.

Edit - it's quite hard to see with the bridge fitted and strings attached, but I'm pretty sure that on mine the knife edge is not literally as sharp as a knife, but it does fit into the groove on the post.

maltingsaudio

 The knife edge should be sharp, looks like QC missed it send it back for a replacement

Philly_Q

Have they changed the design?  The bridge in the first pic here has a noticeably thinner section where it touches the stud, but in the second picture the top of the plate looks completely flat:

davros

Thanks for the responses - it's the same design and the rounded area where it touches the (left) stud is thin, maybe 0.5mm. The part on the right, I believe should be thinned to about the same degree (you can see where the thickness is reduced). On mine they look to have gone a bit crazy with the grinder, taking too much of the thinned area away.

ICBM

Definitely faulty. It’s called a knife edge pivot for a reason.

Philly_Q

Yes, that looks wrong.  I think you should send it back.  Hope the whole batch wasn't messed up!

davros

Cool, I've requested a return. Will ask them to check the replacement before it's sent out!

Musicwolf

Here's one from my Eggle Berlin (not the original), VS100N I think.

prowla

It can't be right - it will clunk as the edges drop into place when you shift the trem.

ICBM

prowla said:

It can't be right - it will clunk as the edges drop into place when you shift the trem.

It's worse - looking at it, I don't think it can even do that, I think both edges will grind up and down on the surfaces of the pivot post, so major tuning trouble is guaranteed.

Philly_Q

Years ago I had a Kahler Traditional bridge which uses the heads of the mounting screws as knife edges.  The instructions weren't very clear and I just propped the bridge against the sides of the screws.  It did work, but not very well.

Top is the right way, bottom is the wrong way!

davros

This isn't one of the Gotoh-made models, it was only about £40 so not expecting it to be top notch but looks like it's not fit for purpose right now.

ICBM

davros said:

This isn't one of the Gotoh-made models, it was only about £40 so not expecting it to be top notch but looks like it's not fit for purpose right now.

Is it even genuine? I seem to remember hearing about counterfeit Wilkinson stuff, but I haven’t seen any.

davros

I think so, it was from a well known guitar parts seller via Amazon. Only came via Amazon as it was a birthday pressie. Luckily from my wife so easy enough to return!

prowla

Lateral thinking, but is it the post which is at fault (or are the two posts different)?

ICBM

prowla said:

Lateral thinking, but is it the post which is at fault (or are the two posts different)?

No, it’s the bridge plate. The knife edge should come to a sharp point, which will then centre in the softer-V shaped groove on the post. The bottom of the groove should *not* come to a sharp point. The sharper the knife edge and the flatter the surface it’s touching at the exact point of contact, the lower the friction.

Philly_Q

As a general (possibly daft) question, do the knife-edges on two-point tremolo bridges (Floyds included) tend to wear out quite quickly, and is there much that can be done to repair that, short of replacing the entire bridge (or bridge plate and studs, at least)?

I've had a few Fender American Standards with two-point bridges, and the aforementioned Kahler, but I've never kept any of those guitars long enough to see the bridges wear out.

ICBM

The knife edges do wear - obviously the quality of the metal matters a lot as to how fast. Some Floyds have them as separate hardened steel inserts, which could in theory be replaced, although I've never done it. Otherwise, the only recourse is to re-grind them so they're sharper, although that also unavoidably moves the edge further backwards, which can cause intonation problems if the saddles can't be moved far enough.

Philly_Q

ICBM said:

Some Floyds have them as separate hardened steel inserts, which could in theory be replaced, although I've never done it. 

Yes, I've got an old Schaller - Floyd Rose II, I think - which has separate inserts.  Never really used it properly, I put it on a partscaster I made about 30 years ago, tried to convert a 22-fret body to take a 24-fret neck and the intonation wasn't quite right.  It's the only time I've owned a Floyd, I hated the setup and string-changing process and I didn't like the feel of the bridge in use either.

But I digress.  It does look like it would be pretty difficult to remove and replace the inserts.