Why am I so shit live?

jd0272

mike_l said:

jd0272 said:

mike_l said:

jd0272 said:
crack

Not recommended.

I'll move yer office chair mind.........  

You tnuc >:)

Spelling Michael, spelling.  

mike_l

There is a cure for "when gigging, my playing's shit"

it's called

GAS

Go buy a new guitar, amp and  pedals, and you'll be cured*.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*possibly..........

jd0272

@Bidley just set out from the off, ie; when you're loading in your gear, to have a fckn good time. 

You'll be having a better time than me. I've already checked with the Boss about the chances of a shag tomorrow eve, to be informed she'll be 'packing' for the off on Saturday. We're only going to Scotland. Tsk. Wives. 

jd0272

Get a mate to do some vid footage, we'll all have a gander and 'advise' you. Might help. Or not.

Bidley

Thanks for the help, all of you, I've got a lot to take away with me and I've taken what you've all said on board.

@jd0272 I think you're right on with aiming to have a good time, perhaps that's where I'm going wrong!

And there's plenty of footage of my shitness captured for posterity, which I won't be divulging!

p90fool

I think adrenaline is your enemy. It comes in handy when you need to strangle a sabre-toothed tiger, but for lightly strung electric guitar playing it's definitely a hindrance.

I overcame chronic stage fright years ago by practicing looking relaxed, and on some big gigs I still do it. It sounds a bit silly, but I have a way of playing which looks off-hand, effortless, and like playing guitar is the easiest thing in the world. It isn't, but I ACT like it is at will, and after a few minutes of pretending I'm great the adrenaline dissipates and my clumsiness goes. It's amazing how little you need to look at your left hand for example, but if I'm nervous I find myself doing it, and it becomes self-perpetuating. Break that habit for a start.

Another obvious point which after a decade of gigging I'm sure you know, is that onstage you should only be going for stuff you can play easily. I reject certain ideas for live use simply because they're too close to the edge of my abilities, being able to nail something 7 out of 10 times at home is not enough.

guitarfishbay

Maybe an obvious one but if you think sweat is a problem are you wearing sweat bands? I find them a massive help personally, I'm also someone who sweats a lot.

carlos

You can't be too bad if you've been playing for 10 years.

frankus

Inner game of music covers this stuff:

the voice worrying "oh shit I always stuff up this bit..."
the voice condeming "you fuck up, you fucked that up..."

What we got taught at band camp (AKA IGF) was:

breath..
look at the audience and smile
keep breathing
keep looking up and reacting to the audience
let go of mistakes
if someone's negative laugh it off.
if you can't laugh it off fake laughing it off..

I found I can't enjoy playing live like I play in jams or alone ... but I enjoy iy for what it is.

ROOG

Every time I see this thread I see, "Why am I so shit to live?"

Surly no one is that bad?

btw, I hate playing live (long time ago), I hate presenting to an audience (not sure why you would present to your self mind), I always dwell on my faults.

Daft thing is 9 times out of 10, people say that went well, or you came across well!

Perhaps I need to learn from this and relax a bit. 

hubobulous

I know what you're experiencing!! I am quite shy on stage and have had to learn to engage with the crowd. Even looking out and catching someone's eye makes me self conscious even if I know I'm an ok guitar player. Its just something I've got to get better at.

Here's some advice from my perspective:

1. Make sure your setlist starts off with a few easy songs. Even if you're warmed up, playing things that are well set in your muscle memory will ease anxiety
2. Make a point of noticing what you 'screw up' on. There's most likely a pattern. It might not be down to a particular song, but it could be certain licks, or phrases on certain parts of the fretboard.....for example, some songs we play require a lot of bar chords near the nut and my hand aches. I have practiced these songs so many times cos I know that it would be easy to screw up
3. Muscle memory - there are licks I can play at speed that will never go wrong. There are slower things that are easy to make mistakes with. Its just cos I've practiced the solos more
4. The crowd doesn't notice or care if mistakes are made - there's a lot of studies out there showing that about 5 seconds beyond a bum note etc, the crowd forgets and just gets into what's being played at that moment. You notice mistakes far more than anyone else does
   
5. No-one else knows the structure of your version of a song - we played a gig a while back where our singer, (my wife!!), was just having a nightmare. She was missing out verses and choruses, changing structure, not coming in on queue etc. We managed to get all of the songs back on track, but no-one else knew. It was just one of those nights for us, but everyone on the dance floor had a great time
   

The asshole who slates your playing is worth shit. Think of it like this. Anyone who's played live knows the pitfalls that you can have from a gig. With that knowledge, why would anyone criticise another person for going through the experience when they know full well that they've probably also had bad nights? They will be someone who wishes that they could gig, but doesn't.

Seriously, anyone in life who goes out of their way to bring someone else down for putting themselves on the line can do one in my eyes. There's nothing positive in their actions at all.

frankus

ROOG said:

Daft thing is 9 times out of 10, people say that went well, or you came across well!

Perhaps I need to learn from this and relax a bit. 

yep there's a massive disconnect between the adoration we want for playing little brown jug and the expectations of the people in the audience. It's really best to listen to their expectation... showmanship consists of playing to that.

frankus

oh and some great advice from guitar_slinger if someone shouts out "yer rubbish, get off" ... shout "thanks dad" and smile

EricTheWeary

hubobulous said:

I know what you're experiencing!! I am quite shy on stage and have had to learn to engage with the crowd. Even looking out and catching someone's eye makes me self conscious even if I know I'm an ok guitar player. Its just something I've got to get better at.

Here's some advice from my perspective:

1. Make sure your setlist starts off with a few easy songs. Even if you're warmed up, playing things that are well set in your muscle memory will ease anxiety
2. Make a point of noticing what you 'screw up' on. There's most likely a pattern. It might not be down to a particular song, but it could be certain licks, or phrases on certain parts of the fretboard.....for example, some songs we play require a lot of bar chords near the nut and my hand aches. I have practiced these songs so many times cos I know that it would be easy to screw up
3. Muscle memory - there are licks I can play at speed that will never go wrong. There are slower things that are easy to make mistakes with. Its just cos I've practiced the solos more
4. The crowd doesn't notice or care if mistakes are made - there's a lot of studies out there showing that about 5 seconds beyond a bum note etc, the crowd forgets and just gets into what's being played at that moment. You notice mistakes far more than anyone else does
   
5. No-one else knows the structure of your version of a song - we played a gig a while back where our singer, (my wife!!), was just having a nightmare. She was missing out verses and choruses, changing structure, not coming in on queue etc. We managed to get all of the songs back on track, but no-one else knew. It was just one of those nights for us, but everyone on the dance floor had a great time
   

The asshole who slates your playing is worth shit. Think of it like this. Anyone who's played live knows the pitfalls that you can have from a gig. With that knowledge, why would anyone criticise another person for going through the experience when they know full well that they've probably also had bad nights? They will be someone who wishes that they could gig, but doesn't.

Seriously, anyone in life who goes out of their way to bring someone else down for putting themselves on the line can do one in my eyes. There's nothing positive in their actions at all.

I have struggled to get people to do this but if you can soundcheck with your opening number I think that helps ( nicked this idea from Gary Moore BTW):

1) your band should then sound as good as possible from the opening
2) the last thing you played was the thing you are about to play so muscle memory is refreshed
3) if you are going to have a brain freeze then you might do it at soundcheck and can put it right by the time you start playing.

I'd also recommend minimising gaps between songs as they get you back into worry mode rather than just plowing on regardless. Unless your front person is a great wit then the audience prefer it that way and you seem more professional.

Smile. Unless you are in a death metal band. Its amazingly hard to do but looking like you are enjoying every second of it is more important than what you play.

GAS can be your friend. If changing guitars, channels, pedals, etc, doesn't help then strip back your gear and keep it simple. On the other hand creating a distinctive sound ( by small margins that only you notice if need be)for different songs can really help. If your brain is confuddled between one song with a riff with E and A and B in it and another riff with E and A and B in it then using a different sound can help get your brain in the zone. Ahh, this is the one with a phaser, that sounds different to the one with the delay now I know where my fingers go.

Be able to hear yourself appropriately. A lot of guitarists worry about being able to hear themselves really well on stage whereas for most people its actually unhelpfull. You need to be able to hear yourself well enough to play but no or not much louder than the audience can hear you in the mix ie you should be hearing what other people hear. If you can hear yourself too well then every last finger squeak and wobbly bend will undermine your confidence. The kind of advice you get from interviews with  massive egos is really unhelpfull. Having a monitoring set up like Yngwie Malmsteen only works if you are Yngwie Malmsteen.

I'd also second the stuff about rehearsing in a stage format; the physical cues you get reahearsing in the round might be quite small and subconscious but then on stage your brain gets panicked into wondering where they have gone - you don't realise the singer nods at you for a solo until you can't see the singer nodding anymore!  



I was trying to find this interview on line but all I could find was a PDF so this is a copy and paste job:


AS SHE PERFORMS IN A LED ZEPPELIN TRIBUTE
band (Zepparella), an acoustic duo (Lapdance Armageddon with
GP L.A. editor Jude Gold), a two-guitars-and-drums instrumental
outfit (Sticks and Stones), and her own solo act (her latest release
is Hale Souls), it’s actually very strange to see Gretchen Menn off
stage. Her punishing gig schedule has certainly taught her a thing
or two about stage sound, and here Menn shares some knowledge
about wrangling those ever-present volume demons.
How do you set your stage volume?
Amps tend to sound better when they’re at a certain level, but
it’s not enjoyable to me if the volume is obtrusively loud. However,
as I play with really powerful drummers, I’m never the one
setting the overall volume of the band. My guitar volume is always
beneath the level of the drums.
Where do you position your speaker cabinets?
A lot of guitarists put their cabinets right on the floor, but that
typically requires you to route the guitar through the monitors if
you want to hear yourself adequately. I don’t like to count on monitors,
so I put my cabinet on top of my road case so the speakers
are hitting me at ear level. I angle the cabinet slightly towards me,
and I move around the stage to see where the good spots are for
feedback, where I can stand and not get feedback, where the guitar
is going to sound louder if I’m taking a solo, and where I’m not
going to be right in my own beam if I need to hear the rest of the
band a bit more.
Do you tend to increase your volume throughout a show as ear fatigue
sets in?
Oh, no. I can count on one hand the number of times I’ve turned
up on stage. Hearing yourself too well is almost as bad as not hearing
yourself well enough. It messes with your attack, and you start
playing self-consciously.
You’re very conservative with effects. Is that because they can blur
the stage sound and cause players to crank up the volume to compensate?
Yes. I like articulation. I like to be able to hear what I’m playing.
Running a lot of reverb, delay, and modulation can sound very
squishy—especially when you’re standing close to your amp and
wearing earplugs.
It’s not smart to risk hearing damage,but a lot of guitarists avoid
wearing earplugs because they can diminish the clarity and impact of mid
and high frequencies.
I use them every rehearsal, every soundcheck, and every performance,
so I’m used to how everything sounds when I wear them.
It’s like my hearing internally calibrates to the earplugs. My preference
is for a warmer sound, anyway—probably because I’m often
standing close to the cymbals—and the stage volume is usually so
loud that it’s not like I would be hearing better without earplugs.

thomasw88

practice your parts by yourself with no other instruments.  If I'm gigging a new song I'm not sure about, I will try and run through any parts I'm iffy with as often as I can, and also on the day of the gig.  It does help a lot.
If you can play the part backwards upsdie down then you'll generally be fine.   Occasionally your fingers don't do what you want them to do! but so what..

if there are tricky bits you struggle with then you can make them slightly easier as people very rarely notice.  If you make a mistake, don't acknowledge it or worry about it. 

The more gigs you do the less you worry about it.

ElectroDan

This might sound crazy. But try to only use your right hand for carrying in. I found that after straining to carry heavy stuff in my left, that it is harder to use it intricately.

Apart from that, when you get changed into your gig clothes, try to imagine becoming a bit of a rock legend, someone cool. Embrace the nerves, but deliberately replace the "I'm guaranteed to fuck up tonight!", with "This is going to be awesome, let's get it on!"

It helps if your first song is a belter, not only because it grabs the audience by the balls, but it gives you a chance to stamp your foot and thrash about a bit to burn up some adrenaline. Remember dude. It's supposed to be fun! Good luck!

meltedbuzzbox

ElectroDan said:

This might sound crazy. But try to only use your right hand for carrying in. I found that after straining to carry heavy stuff in my left, that it is harder to use it intricately.

Apart from that, when you get changed into your gig clothes, try to imagine becoming a bit of a rock legend, someone cool. Embrace the nerves, but deliberately replace the "I'm guaranteed to fuck up tonight!", with "This is going to be awesome, let's get it on!"

It helps if your first song is a belter, not only because it grabs the audience by the balls, but it gives you a chance to stamp your foot and thrash about a bit to burn up some adrenaline. Remember dude. It's supposed to be fun! Good luck!

This is kind of what I was going to say. If its on your mind it will only get worse. 

Everyone drops a bollock once in a while. Laugh it off rather than let it get to you. 

Its all in the mind... and beer (but not too much)

Blueingreen

There's a lot of stuff about nervousness etc here but on a more basic level it can be easy to overestimate how well prepared you are. There can be a big difference between having played a tune through without any mistakes once or twice and knowing it well enough to be confident you will play it without mistakes every time.

You run through a song a few times at home and hit a couple of clangers. Eventually you run through it a couple of times with no mistakes.  You think, fine, I know this one and move on to the next one. In fact you've played it maybe ten times and played it correctly two or three. The chance you'll make a mistake the next time you play it are still pretty high. 

It can also be easy to drift into an "it'll be alright on the night" mentality.  You've played the tune through a few times, making mistakes sometimes but other times getting through it mistake-free. You are confident when the stakes are higher at a gig and you're really concentrating you'll nail it.  Fact is, you still don't know the tune well enough to get through it mistake-free every time and you are just as likely to foul it up on the gig as at home.  You'll just feel a helluva lot worse about it.  And you'll likely blame nerves or stage fright instead of being under-prepared.

Talent is also a factor.  Some people find it much harder to get to the point where they don't make mistakes.  Jimmy Bruno quit being a session player and concentrated on jazz partly because he made too many mistakes in sessions.  He's a world class jazz player now but found he couldn't match other session guys who could rattle off simpler parts mistake-free every time. I can identify with that - I'm not remotely on the same planet as Jimmy Bruno as a player, but I can improvise fluently in certain contexts and then foul up on something much much simpler when I need to play note for note, even though I think I've done the preparatory work.  But I know other players who are the reverse. They are not so comfortable improvising but are much quicker than I am at getting note-for-note parts to the point where they can play them without mistakes.  I can only envy their talent and reconcile myself to the extra work it will take me to get to the same point.

TheOtherDennis

I can fully sympathise with this, because the few times I've played live I've been witless with terror, but I've found that absolutely no one notices. I once booted a solo on one song that I could play in my sleep, and afterwards, someone in the audience said what a good job I'd done!

I would also add that all those here who say that anyone criticising you is an armchair knob end, are all correct. Any bedroom guitarist, no matter how good, knows that you're better than them because you're brave enough to get up on stage and they're not. While anyone with any sense who's played on stage will not criticise your playing because they've ALL been there too, to one degree or another.

No idea how to solve your problem cos I haven't solved mine yet, but I think it might be that you're over fussing yourself and maybe need to chill a bit.

viz

Anyway Bidders, you're great live. Both your band and you yourself. I think it's something you've started to make bigger than it is. It sounds like it's been brought on by the punters making snide remarks, but that's got precisely diddly-squat to do with your playing. Remember, if we were all at a Hendrix/Clapton/Led Zep gig, half of us would be saying the guitarist's shite. So like the others have said, try to replicate the live situation in your rehearsals so the stage becomes your friend, and remember, others' opinions of you are none of your business!