1969 Strat photos

Winny_Pooh

Found this lot of photos I took of a friend's 100% original strat 10 years ago when he was planning to sell it. Just came across them today and thought it interesting to share. You can see some transitional quirks, grey botttom pickups, distinctive routing and pickgaurd and a very thin round lam fingerboard.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/pxxxn7goa6a1qy0/AAAjXHTlO9ynX_FGKWPhbG7Ma?dl=0

Ben_McCarthy

Great photos, did he sell it in the end? 

soma1975

Lovely guitar that. 

Winny_Pooh

Ben_McCarthy said:

Great photos, did he sell it in the end? 

nah, it's still sat in a case in his house with some 30 other old guitars, classic hoarder type haha

ICBM

The pearl-back guard is very distinctive of that era. It's quite amazing that Fender simply used up surplus material - which was more expensive than the standard three-ply - by flipping it over, but it's quite common to find.

Also funny that thirty years ago, you could barely give away late-60s CBS-head Strats, and look at the prices now...

skippy76

Thanks for sharing mate, lovely looking stratomocaster  

I have a set of 69 pickups in my 61 strat so it was interesting to compare the pickup shots.

p90fool

Great pics!

Voxman

Lovely 69 Strat.

ICBM is quite right. When I was strapped for cash in 1979/80 I was thinking of selling my (November) 69 hardtail but the most I got offered was £175 which was less then it cost me so I kept it...and darned pleased I did.

I didn't know at the time but my 69 is actually pretty rare. All the Strats being made at that time had rosewood boards as Fender was no longer making the one piece maple neck. But for a limited period of 12-15 mths or so as a special order and at a fair bit of extra cost Fender would supply a maple capped board that they would fit just like a rosewood board. Because the truss rod was laid inside before the maple cap board was fitted, it's the only time Fender didn't need to add a skunk stripe inlay at the back of the net with a maple board Strat.  Jimi Hendrix' white late '68 was the same.

jimmyguitar

I might be wrong but aren’t those squared off pickup routes in the OP typical of 1970 onwards?

Voxman

jimmyguitar said:

I might be wrong but aren’t those squared off pickup routes in the OP typical of 1970 onwards?

That was my best understanding too. 

There's an interesting article here on neck dates: (see here: https://www.vintageandrare.com/blog/serial-number-identification-and-decoding/) 

The neck number on my 69 Strat follows the 9 character 'shape' listed in the article and has 22 (denoting Stratocaster), then a 3 digit batch number, and then 119, denoting November 1969. 

Interestingly the Strat in the OP only has 8 digits:  "Other exceptions exist as well. For example, a 1970 Strat with the neck code 2231008B. The first “22” is the model (Strat), and the ending “B” is the neck width. But the “008” is not the month and year. There aren’t really any explanations to this, but it appears on the occasional Fender guitar from this era."

Interestingly the Strat in the OP has a 008 neck number which suggests that it too might possibly be a 1970 guitar, & which would be consistent with your observation of the squared off pickup routes.  

I also noticed the receipt dated 23/4/62 for a completely different serial number 5827901 whereas the OP guitar serial number starts with a 2 - so that receipt must relate to a different (1962?) Stratocaster!  

guitars4you

Thanks for posting the pics - That is now a very desirable piece of kit, especially in that condition + originality

ICBM

It’s quite likely a ‘70 even if some of the parts are dated ‘69. A friend of mine had a Strat which was by all usual dating methods a ‘69, except that the one remaining original tone pot was dated January 1970. Since it was scratchy and the other two pots had been previously replaced with cheap and nasty ones, I replaced all three for him, with new matching CTS ones. Anyone now examining it would call it a ‘69 with replaced pots... and there’s no way of proving that it isn’t. What’s so stupid is that it’s worth more as a “69” than as a “70” despite being exactly the same guitar.

For what it’s worth it was the best Strat I’ve ever played, and that includes many pre-CBS ones.

(By the way, when he sold it the date was correctly described, but it's impossible to know what might have happened to it further down the line...)

guitars4you

ICBM said:

It’s quite likely a ‘70 even if some of the parts are dated ‘69. A friend of mine had a Strat which was by all usual dating methods a ‘69, except that the one remaining original tone pot was dated January 1970. Since it was scratchy and the other two pots had been previously replaced with cheap and nasty ones, I replaced all three for him, with new matching CTS ones. Anyone now examining it would call it a ‘69 with replaced pots... and there’s no way of proving that it isn’t. What’s so stupid is the it’s worth more as a “69” than as a “70” despite being exactly the same guitar.

For what it’s worth it was the best Strat I’ve ever played, and that includes many pre-CBS ones.

The point is Fender never made guitars - They made components  in bulk and assembled instruments from these piles of parts - Most parts are dated - But parts could and would be left in 'storage' boxes etc until required - As such old parts were not always used up first - This is why we get so many transition era models and guitars that could have a choice of dates 

It was often assumed, rightly or wrongly, that the serial number gave you the date of birth - Far more accurate today on a Fender - But back in the days of the number on the neck plate, the issue was always the same in that old numbers were not used first - Today we now know how to date pots, pick-ups, necks etc and we use this info to acquire a potential date of birth

If the guitar is all original , then it has to be assumed that the youngest dateable parts, give  a more accurate date of birth of the guitar - ie if it has 69 p/up date markings and 70 pot date markings, then it can't possibly be have been assembled in 1969, no matter what the neck date is or serial number date implies - As such it is a 1970 Strat 

I was looking at a Jazzmaster only days ago - All original with a mix of parts from 1967 to 1969 - Therefore it has to be 1969

ICBM

guitars4you said:

The point is Fender never made guitars - They made components  in bulk and assembled instruments from these piles of parts - Most parts are dated - But parts could and would be left in 'storage' boxes etc until required - As such old parts were not always used up first - This is why we get so many transition era models and guitars that could have a choice of dates 

It was often assumed, rightly or wrongly, that the serial number gave you the date of birth - Far more accurate today on a Fender - But back in the days of the number on the neck plate, the issue was always the same in that old numbers were not used first - Today we now know how to date pots, pick-ups, necks etc and we use this info to acquire a potential date of birth

If the guitar is all original , then it has to be assumed that the youngest dateable parts, give  a more accurate date of birth of the guitar - ie if it has 69 p/up date markings and 70 pot date markings, then it can't possibly be have been assembled in 1969, no matter what the neck date is or serial number date implies - As such it is a 1970 Strat 

I was looking at a Jazzmaster only days ago - All original with a mix of parts from 1967 to 1969 - Therefore it has to be 1969

Exactly. One of the biggest catch-outs from this period is 1966 pots. It appears that someone at CBS drastically over-ordered 250K pots in 1966 - whether by mistake (an extra zero?), or intentionally, either to get a bulk discount or in anticipation of huge production increases that never happened, I have no idea - but it means that 1966-dated pots appear on completely original Fenders made up to 1970 in some cases... and someone reading the pot codes without knowing this will think it's a 1966 guitar, if there are no other clear dates.

Voxman

Fenders can be notoriously difficult to date accurately because their manufacture was modular. The most misleading and unreliable dating method is the neck plate. These were originally kept in a huge box and pulled out at random and could easily be 12 or even 18 months out either way from the dates you see quoted.  My neck plate number is just in the 1970 range but it was verified as a 69 by Vintage and Rare with 69 pots, pickups, neck, body routings and also because of the capped maple neck. I mentioned earlier these were only for a short period but I've now discovered that capped maple boards with no neck skunk stripe were used between 1960 and 1969 after which Fender went back to the one piece maple slab board.

Loobs

Very cool, had no idea the back of the pickguards in that era were pearloid. 

guitars4you

Loobs said:

Very cool, had no idea the back of the pickguards in that era were pearloid. 

I think first time I came across one I thought it was a fake/replacement as it was so unusual - Obviously quickly found out otherwise

chris45

I wonder what would have happened if you could time travel back and tell Fender that their products in the future would be worth a lot more if they were able to match the same production date for all the components- I suspect Leo would be amazed.