How do you know if you have overcooked your nut slotting?

axisus

Are there tell tale signs? I'm a real newbie to the art of sorting nuts.

ICBM

If the string is too low relative to the first fret.

Fret the string at the third fret and look at the gap between the string and the first fret - it should be tiny, but there should be one.

WezV

It will buzz on the first fret.   Stop just before it does

brucegill

When your getting close, put a pencil mark along the slot - you can then see you have the ramp correct and know when you’ve actually taken some off the front edge. 

brucegill

axisus said:

Are there tell tale signs? I'm a real newbie to the art of sorting nuts.

When you swear out load and try and find the superglue. 

Whistler

Somewhere around 30 thou on the lower E and 20 thou on the top E, with the others on a sliding scale between these values, is likely to be as low as you want to go until you know your guitar and your personal choice well enough.

axisus

Whistler said:

Somewhere around 30 thou on the lower E and 20 thou on the top E, with the others on a sliding scale between these values, is likely to be as low as you want to go until you know your guitar and your personal choice well enough.

30 thou - is that 0.03? (sorry, not an engineer!) That seems like a big gap? I'm right down at a gnat's whisker right now so Looks like new nut time for me

ICBM

Way too big. Using the 3rd fret method, you want about 1/4 of the string diameter - ie .002” on the top E and .010” on the low E. Even less if you play fairly lightly, down to about half that.

You don’t need a new nut unless it’s less than that, there’s no gap at all, or it’s actually buzzing on the first fret.

octatonic

If/when you take it too far you can build it back up using the baking soda and super glue trick.

Whistler

Sorry about using old money but America still uses inches and my StewMac gauge is in thousands of an inch.

0.03" is indeed 30 thou. Start there as you can always go down further much easier than you can go up - see brucegill's 2 excellent comments, above.

If you are new to this is is good insurance to remove the existing nut and learn on a new one. That way, if it goes wrong you can always put the original back. After all these years I still do this when I can.

It is worth a look at this StewMac page where the whole process is explained, complete with drawings and a video.

axisus

ICBM said:

Way too big. Using the 3rd fret method, you want about 1/4 of the string diameter - ie .002” on the top E and .010” on the low E. Even less if you play fairly lightly, down to about half that.

You don’t need a new nut unless it’s less than that, there’s no gap at all, or it’s actually buzzing on the first fret.

Ahh, just found my feeler gauges and my low E is about .002! That's my problem string.

axisus

octatonic said:

If/when you take it too far you can build it back up using the baking soda and super glue trick.

So is that as simple as it sounds?

EDIT: don't worry, just found a YouTube video ..

octatonic

It is simple in the way that walking a high wire is simple, just stay upright and don’t fall off.
The reality is a bit more complex.

Nut cutting is as much an art as a science.
I made a mess of the first dozen or so that I tried.
Building back up can also go sideways pretty quickly, and the nut needs to be reshaped.

Sometimes it is just quicker to make it again.
Do you have some bone you can practice on?

ICBM

axisus said:

Ahh, just found my feeler gauges and my low E is about .002! That's my problem string.

Yes, that’s probably too low, and I think it will buzz.

If it’s just one string I would fill the groove - I use superglue and paper, not baking powder. The thin hard paper from an Ernie Ball string packet is ideal - fold it round your thumb nail and press it into the groove - when the glue sets it makes a good strong composite which you can then file back to (nearly!) where it was.

axisus

Thanks all, I'll try the fix route for now. 

FelineGuitars

Jon - take the imperial feeler gauge set 

Put a ruler or straight edge across 1st and 2nd frets

Find out how many feeler gauges it takes to be the same as that gap , so they will go in but only just with a slight scrape

Add 0.012"** on top of that stack  (**you can start higher with a 0.015" if feeling cautious)

Push that new stack up against the front face of the nut under the strings

Cut the slots using your files and when the file "just" touches the top of the feeler gauges you should hear it /feel it

Stop cutting and check action with feeler gauges removed 

if too high you can swap that 0.012" for 0.011" or 0.010" 

axisus

FelineGuitars said:

Jon - take the imperial feeler gauge set 

Put a ruler or straight edge across 1st and 2nd frets

Find out how many feeler gauges it takes to be the same as that gap , so they will go in but only just with a slight scrape

Add 0.012"** on top of that stack  (**you can start higher with a 0.015" if feeling cautious)

Push that new stack up against the front face of the nut under the strings

Cut the slots using your files and when the file "just" touches the top of the feeler gauges you should hear it /feel it

Stop cutting and check action with feeler gauges removed 

if too high you can swap that 0.012" for 0.011" or 0.010" 

Many thanks! Most useful.

HilditchGuitars

Just to add, I go the 'fret at 3rd and check the gap over 1st' route and check intonation at 1-3 too. Generally if you can get these 3 frets in tune it's a good indication the height is right