String tension - Luthier question ?

JGC

I have 3 guitars whose string tension flies in the face of standard wisdom, any idea why ?

All strung with 10g string sets, same brand, the tiniest bit of relief on the neck, low action and nicely set up

Telecaster - 25.5" scale, standard bridge, 3 saddles

Gibson SG - 24.75" scale, Nashville TOM bridge, standard tail piece and strings overwrapped

Nik Huber Krautster II - 25" scale, wraparound stop bar tail piece

The string tension on the tele is noticeably less than on the other 2 which are similar in feel to each other...this flies against conventional wisdom of Fenders having higher string tension due to the longer scale length...I don't get it ?

Top wrapping the SG did ease tension a touch.

Thoughts anyone ......

Musicwolf

What method are you using to measure string tension?

Musicwolf

Just to put that into context.

The difference in string tension (same gauge of strings, same tuning) between a 25.5" Fender and a 24.75" Gibson type is approx 6%.

If you are pressing a string down, i.e. you are talking about feel, then the force required is directly proportional to the displacement (how far you push the string).  If you have one guitar with an action of 2.0mm and another of 1.5mm then that's 33% more force required with the higher action.  Of course action is just to the top of the fret.  In practice you are pushing the string down to the fretboard so fret height also makes a difference.

Tension is one aspect of feel.  It matters when you change gauge on one guitar but it doesn't explain completely why one guitar feels different to another.

JGC

cheers, the action is very similar on all 3, it's not much different when pressing the string down onto the frets but bending on the Fender is so much easier...I expected it to be the other way round....neck radius maybe...Fender will be 9.5", Gibson 12" and the Huber 10-12" compound ?

WezV

Excess string length comes into play when bending...

Headstock design and string break angles should be considered. 

ICBM

Musicwolf said:

In practice you are pushing the string down to the fretboard so fret height also makes a difference.

You're not - or if you are, you're massively over-pressing and will have huge tuning issues. The string actually never gets anywhere near the fingerboard.

WezV said:

Excess string length comes into play when bending...

Headstock design and string break angles should be considered. 

This.

You're not feeling the tension, you're feeling the resistance to bending, especially on the plain strings, which is not the same thing. The Tele will feel the easiest because it has the longest string path beyond the sounding length, on the top two strings in particular.

Roland

^^^^ This. I’ve got two guitars with same 25.5” scale and similar hardware. Except one is string through and has conventional tuners. The other is headless, with strings clamped within millimetres of the nut, and ball ends held in tuner slugs within 10mm of bridge saddles. The headless is much harder to bend.

JGC

ICBM said:

Musicwolf said:

In practice you are pushing the string down to the fretboard so fret height also makes a difference.

You're not - or if you are, you're massively over-pressing and will have huge tuning issues. The string actually never gets anywhere near the fingerboard.

WezV said:

Excess string length comes into play when bending...

Headstock design and string break angles should be considered. 

This.

You're not feeling the tension, you're feeling the resistance to bending, especially on the plain strings, which is not the same thing. The Tele will feel the easiest because it has the longest string path beyond the sounding length, on the top two strings in particular.

Thanks.....Interesting, and it is the top two strings where it's most noticeable...so are you saying that it's the length of string from tuner through to ferrules on the back of the tele that affects the bending ?  Everything you read says that a Gibson style guitar should be easier than a Fender ?

ICBM

JGC said:

Thanks.....Interesting, and it is the top two strings where it's most noticeable...so are you saying that it's the length of string from tuner through to ferrules on the back of the tele that affects the bending ?  Everything you read says that a Gibson style guitar should be easier than a Fender ?

Yes. When you bend a string you have to stretch the whole thing - although there's usually enough friction at the bridge saddle on a Tele to stop the bit through the body from moving - which means that you have to push the string further for the same pitch rise, and it feels easier.

But some people actually think it's *harder*, because you have to push the string further, and find a short steep pitch bend easier. There doesn't seem to be any hard and fast 'correct' answer, it's just down to personal perception.

I find the wider bend/softer feel easier as you do.

mrkb

To raise the pitch when bending you are increasing the tension in the entire length of the string. So the length of string from ball end to tuner peg is stretched, therefore that’s the critical dimension to compare.

JGC

Thanks guys, you learn something everyday...interesting topic...I always thought that the only critical bit was between the nut and the saddle !!

So that probably explains why the Huber with its wraparound tailpiece feels tightest of them all as it almost certainly has the shortest string length .....