How the hell and what the hell have I done?

Samgb

Ok. A Seymour Duncan phat cat and a Tonerider Rebel 90 to replace the useless humbuckers in my Epi SG. Both sound terrific but the middle position is out of phase I'm guessing due to them being wound differently?Which also sounds great to me as a big Peter Green fan. However, I've just discovered that when I put it in the middle position and roll the bridge volume off to about 8 it kicks back in and I get the full middle position sound. How in the name of holy balls have I done this? It's actually ended up giving me a completely unintentional 4 position.
Idiot savant is tthe phrase that's springing to mind here...

Basher

That's what happens with out-of-phase pickups.

The cancellation effect needs both pickups at similar volumes. Once you back one off, you lose the out-of-phase effect. What's left isn't quite the same as the regular middle position.

ICBM

You don't get the full middle position sound, you get basically the same as the pickup which is full up. Not exact because there will still be a little cancellation and loading from the pot which is turned down, but close. You only get the full out-of-phase effect when the pickups are almost equal in volume.

Samgb

Interesting. Thanks for that spot of advice guys I didn't know that about out of phase - I've got a lot to learn about the electrics full stop I think. I don't think it's a million miles off the middle position - I've been playing with it and there's quite a difference between the neck and the rolled off middle. It's made me reconsider fixing it with two synced pickups that's for sure.

p90fool

If you like the Peter Green out-of-phase sound you will also begin to notice that he often didn't have both of his pickups at exactly the same volume either. Depending on the taper of your pots (ie. how quickly they roll the volume off) you'll discover all sorts of subtle variations on that sound.

Having the neck pickup slightly louder than the bridge for example helps to reintroduce a little warmth for when you find the full out-of-phase sound just a little too thin.
Have fun!

richardhomer

p90fool;267688" said:

If you like the Peter Green out-of-phase sound you will also begin to notice that he often didn't have both of his pickups at exactly the same volume either.


Having the neck pickup slightly louder than the bridge for example helps to reintroduce a little warmth for when you find the full out-of-phase sound just a little too thin.

Mark Knopfler's pre-Historic had a push-pull pot to give the out of phase option.

When playing Brothers in Arms live, he used mainly the neck, with a bit out of phase bridge mixed in.

A great sound.

Samgb

p90fool;267688" said:

If you like the Peter Green out-of-phase sound you will also begin to notice that he often didn't have both of his pickups at exactly the same volume either. Depending on the taper of your pots (ie. how quickly they roll the volume off) you'll discover all sorts of subtle variations on that sound.



Having the neck pickup slightly louder than the bridge for example helps to reintroduce a little warmth for when you find the full out-of-phase sound just a little too thin.

Have fun!

I think I need to replace the cheap stock pots before I'll get any subtle variations. They're currently those ones where 1-10 seems to drop off in one big gloop.

Samgb

richardhomer said:

p90fool;267688" said:

If you like the Peter Green out-of-phase sound you will also begin to notice that he often didn't have both of his pickups at exactly the same volume either.


Having the neck pickup slightly louder than the bridge for example helps to reintroduce a little warmth for when you find the full out-of-phase sound just a little too thin.

Mark Knopfler's pre-Historic had a push-pull pot to give the out of phase option.

When playing Brothers in Arms live, he used mainly the neck, with a bit out of phase bridge mixed in.

A great sound.

It is a nice sound. I have always been a middle position guy but its only recently ive started experimentdiscovered the joys of the volume nob. I had previously ignored it - more fool me.

lustycourtier

Its why I completely fallen in love with gretsch master volumes.....