custom shop Les Paul Special '60 V '57 Junior

Hootsmon

single cut one v two pick ups

Which and why?

ICBM

Having owned an original '57 Junior and '57 Special at the same time, I would say that if you play only overdriven blues/rock and use the controls on the guitar a lot, the Junior is great and has a really responsive and expressive aggression to it that the Special doesn't quite even on the bridge pickup. For everything else the Special is better though.

A '60 Special is a double-cut, by the way - they changed in very late '58. Unless Gibson have decided to rewrite history.






(Checks)

Oh... 

Philly_Q

Yeah, the Custom Shop call both the single- and double-cut Specials '60s, for some reason.

Brize

Philly_Q said:

Yeah, the Custom Shop call both the single- and double-cut Specials '60s, for some reason.

They've changed that now, belatedly.

Conventional wisdom is that the Junior is a better guitar for balls-out rock - something about the lack of a neck pickup not exerting a magnetic pull on the strings.

As ever, though, generalisations don't account for individual guitars - I've played Juniors that were a bit meh and Specials that were searing on the bridge pickup.

I love the concept of the Junior, but I personally prefer the versatility of a good Special.

ICBM

Brize said:

Conventional wisdom is that the Junior is a better guitar for balls-out rock - something about the lack of a neck pickup not exerting a magnetic pull on the strings.

As ever, though, generalisations don't account for individual guitars - I've played Juniors that were a bit meh and Specials that were searing on the bridge pickup.

I love the concept of the Junior, but I personally prefer the versatility of a good Special.

That’s all true, and I did prefer my Special - I hated the Afrika Korps khaki finish, although that’s another matter (sorry TV Yellow fans ) - but the Junior really did have something extra for all-out overdriven rock’n’roll, so at least with my two, conventional wisdom was actually right.

MichaelWatts

I was under the impression the lack of routing for a neck pickup was another factor in the sound of a Junior. I must admit I do prefer them. 

ICBM

MichaelWatts said:

I was under the impression the lack of routing for a neck pickup was another factor in the sound of a Junior.

I'm not sure that's likely to make much of a difference on the single-cuts - the tenon is huge and the same size with or without the neck pickup rout - but I think it will on the double-cuts... especially the early ones where the pickup is far too close to the fingerboard and the neck has a tendency to part company with the body.

Brize

I remember reading about an experiment where a bunch of pro guitarists, including famous Junior-slinger Leslie West, blind tested single-cut and double-cut juniors to see which they preferred tonally. They were all surprised that the double-cut was unanimously favoured. 

hyperben

Brize said:

I remember reading about an experiment where a bunch of pro guitarists, including famous Junior-slinger Leslie West, blind tested single-cut and double-cut juniors to see which they preferred tonally. They were all surprised that the double-cut was unanimously favoured. 

My experience with both I’ve always preferred the brighter tone of the DCs too

Brize

hyperben said:

Brize said:

I remember reading about an experiment where a bunch of pro guitarists, including famous Junior-slinger Leslie West, blind tested single-cut and double-cut juniors to see which they preferred tonally. They were all surprised that the double-cut was unanimously favoured. 

My experience with both I’ve always preferred the brighter tone of the DCs too

I've only played a few of each but, based on that limited sample size, I concur. I had a killer '59 Junior a few years ago, bought from Gary Winterflood, but stupidly sold it.

Hootsmon

.

springhead

Brize said:

hyperben said:

Brize said:

I remember reading about an experiment where a bunch of pro guitarists, including famous Junior-slinger Leslie West, blind tested single-cut and double-cut juniors to see which they preferred tonally. They were all surprised that the double-cut was unanimously favoured. 

My experience with both I’ve always preferred the brighter tone of the DCs too

I've only played a few of each but, based on that limited sample size, I concur. I had a killer '59 Junior a few years ago, bought from Gary Winterflood, but stupidly sold it.

i've taken my DC Special to the last couple of LP Forum meet up's and we've compared lots of single and double cut Juniors and Specials from 56-61 through a lovely loud Gartone 5E3.  They all sounded different, not massively, not good or bad but different.  I think there's more of a difference between Junior and Special than there is between DC and SC.  The Juniors tend to be more aggressive.  The Special gives you that lovely neck pickup and that jangly mid position sound. Or add just a little bit of neck to the bridge pickup to fatten it. 

bobbatone

Does anyone have experience with the new Custom shop special 57’ Reissue? I know there was a previously 60’ vos version but I’m wondering if the new 57’s are better. Perhaps I’ve bought bought into the hype from Namm about the new line up being better and more authentic than ever since the factory move!

As for juniors, I agree it depends if you need the extra tonal options. For me the special is more useful. 

hyperben

bobbatone said:

Does anyone have experience with the new Custom shop special 57’ Reissue? I know there was a previously 60’ vos version but I’m wondering if the new 57’s are better. Perhaps I’ve bought bought into the hype from Namm about the new line up being better and more authentic than ever since the factory move!

As for juniors, I agree it depends if you need the extra tonal options. For me the special is more useful. 

I’ve played both and there’s no significant difference. They’re the same guitar anyway, just were named wrongly and now corrected. Gibson never made a SC in ‘60.

Brize

bobbatone said:

Does anyone have experience with the new Custom shop special 57’ Reissue? I know there was a previously 60’ vos version but I’m wondering if the new 57’s are better. Perhaps I’ve bought bought into the hype from Namm about the new line up being better and more authentic than ever since the factory move!

As for juniors, I agree it depends if you need the extra tonal options. For me the special is more useful. 

Yep, as @hyperben says - same guitar. I have a '1960' single-cut Special reissue and it's killer.

ICBM

bobbatone said:

I’m wondering if the new 57’s are better. Perhaps I’ve bought bought into the hype from Namm about the new line up being better and more authentic than ever since the factory move!

More authentic because they’ve actually got the supposed year of the reissue right this time .

It does make you wonder about whoever is in charge of marketing at Gibson...

Brize

ICBM said:

bobbatone said:

I’m wondering if the new 57’s are better. Perhaps I’ve bought bought into the hype from Namm about the new line up being better and more authentic than ever since the factory move!

More authentic because they’ve actually got the supposed year of the reissue right this time .

It does make you wonder about whoever is in charge of marketing at Gibson...

I always found that 1960 designation staggering - that it was allowed to be put out in the first place and allowed to persist for so long. Any old Joe on the Les Paul forum knows that the single-cut Special was discontinued by 1960 but Gibson themselves didn't? Bizarre.

Philly_Q

Brize said:

ICBM said:

bobbatone said:

I’m wondering if the new 57’s are better. Perhaps I’ve bought bought into the hype from Namm about the new line up being better and more authentic than ever since the factory move!

More authentic because they’ve actually got the supposed year of the reissue right this time .

It does make you wonder about whoever is in charge of marketing at Gibson...

I always found that 1960 designation staggering - that it was allowed to be put out in the first place and allowed to persist for so long. Any old Joe on the Les Paul forum knows that the single-cut Special was discontinued by 1960 but Gibson themselves didn't? Bizarre.

I'm not particularly good on the history, but for a while I assumed the 1960 designation meant it would have a skinny neck like the old Les Paul Classics with wee-coloured inlays and "1960" on the scratchplate.  It doesn't, it's got a big fat neck.