K&K Pure Mini and LR Baggs Anthem Direct Comparison

Andyjr1515

Hi
It took a while but here it is.

Just to recap.  The dreadnought acoustic I built for Matt Marriott is fitted with both systems, each with their own output.  One of the requests from my previous post was - could he record from both outputs simultaneously, playing one piece.

So here we have a fairly unique comparison.  No other variables in at all.  Same performance; no EQ; same input gain direct into the DAW.


As always, best heard through headphones:

Andy
 

Lewy

Notwithstanding the fact that a £30 mic will still sound better recorded than even high end pickup systems DI’d, the K&K gets my vote. I still hear too much piezo in the Anthem. 

preston61

Thanks for the video Andy, really enjoyed that.

I have the K&K and always wondered how it sounded compared to a LR Baggs Anthem. I really appreciated Matt's comments after the playing, that was incredibly helpful to visually see the difference in the signals between the 2. There were a couple of things I thought as I was listening.

1. When someone can play the guitar it sounds good regardless of what they are playing through.

2. That is a lovely guitar.

3. I felt a trick might have been missed in the way the 2 takes were shown in the video. I feel it might have been more helpful to have had the video cut in such a way that the mini segments were played back to back. By the time the same part came around on the Anthem I'd long forgotten how the K&K sounded on that bit and so it wasn't possible to compare the differences (not in a way of "which is better")

4. I'd have quite liked to have heard the same bit with both blended together. I understand that would have made the video a bit longer, but it would have been nice. It could have gone K&K part a, Anthem part a, Both part a, and so on

Once again, thanks for sharing the video, I'd been following the other thread so it's great to see the end result

Andyjr1515

preston61 said:

Thanks for the video Andy, really enjoyed that.

I have the K&K and always wondered how it sounded compared to a LR Baggs Anthem. I really appreciated Matt's comments after the playing, that was incredibly helpful to visually see the difference in the signals between the 2. There were a couple of things I thought as I was listening.

1. When someone can play the guitar it sounds good regardless of what they are playing through.

2. That is a lovely guitar.

3. I felt a trick might have been missed in the way the 2 takes were shown in the video. I feel it might have been more helpful to have had the video cut in such a way that the mini segments were played back to back. By the time the same part came around on the Anthem I'd long forgotten how the K&K sounded on that bit and so it wasn't possible to compare the differences (not in a way of "which is better")

4. I'd have quite liked to have heard the same bit with both blended together. I understand that would have made the video a bit longer, but it would have been nice. It could have gone K&K part a, Anthem part a, Both part a, and so on

Once again, thanks for sharing the video, I'd been following the other thread so it's great to see the end result

Thanks for the feedback

Yes - Matt asked me whether I wanted it split up or all the way through.  I decided all the way through because most players want to know how each one responds to the range of styles they might play - because they are generally only going to have one    The absolute sounds are going to depend on such a lot of other things, but the difference for a particular pickup between say, finger picking and strumming is probably more relevant because that contrast is going to be at least indicative regardless of the guitar you have.  

I was delighted that he played what he played because it had EVERYTHING - even hard strumming and soft strumming - so, given that the above was my aim, it is perfect.

But it is still only one comparison in one set of circumstances and - in the case of the LR Baggs, one mix setting between the piezo and saddle mic.

But I get what you are saying and if I get time I'll actually do an edit (I have the original mp4) of each style back to back.  I won't ask Matt to do it because he did this one as a favour and I think he needs to spend his time trying to eke out a living in these challenging times! 

 I will, though, ask Matt to send me the two audio tracks after he'd added the 7dB gain to the Anthem and I'll post those too.  Again this is a teeny bit fraught because what you will hear is the impact of the gain from his DAW - in real life most of us are going to either add a pre-amp pedal or turn our amps up a bit so that will colour the sound differently. 


But, all said, it's still pretty certainly the only such comparison on YouTube  


And he did say VERY nice things about the guitar at the end 

Andyjr1515

Lewy said:

Notwithstanding the fact that a £30 mic will still sound better recorded than even high end pickup systems DI’d, the K&K gets my vote. I still hear too much piezo in the Anthem. 

I have to say, both of them knock spots off the Shadow Doubleplay system I have fitted to my own acoustics!

I feel a mod coming on...

Andyjr1515

Lewy said:

Notwithstanding the fact that a £30 mic will still sound better recorded than even high end pickup systems DI’d, the K&K gets my vote. I still hear too much piezo in the Anthem. 

It's also a bit 'horses for courses'.  I do know (as he says in the video) that Matt has used both systems in specific recording and the few live situations pre the lockdown.  I will find out at some stage what he found worked best for what.  My guess - but it is only a guess - is that he has more adjustment with the Anthem to tame acoustic feedback in group work and also that there will be some styles where he finds the balance or contrast of each to be useful.  
   

Funkfingers

One detail missing from the description is, how was the piezo/mic balance set on the LR Baggs Anthem? 

I ditched the Anthem SL because its simplified controls provided no way to dial out the piezo signal. I now use their Lyric system. 

A posh microphone would be wasted in the atrocious acoustic of my jerry-built ex-MOD flat.

Andyjr1515

Funkfingers said:

One detail missing from the description is, how was the piezo/mic balance set on the LR Baggs Anthem? 

I ditched the Anthem SL because its simplified controls provided no way to dial out the piezo signal. I now use their Lyric system. 

A posh microphone would be wasted in the atrocious acoustic of my jerry-built ex-MOD flat.

It does flash up in the text at the beginning.  He states he has it at 50% blend as best as he could

Andyjr1515

preston61 said:

 I'd have quite liked to have heard the same bit with both blended together. 

Not quite what you suggested, but I think Matt is shortly going to post a video on his own channel with both pickup systems blended, although I think it will be one setting all the way through.  I'll post the link if I think it might be of interest.

Andyjr1515

By the way, @preston61 ; - Matt has also posted this on his own channel 'Matt Marriott' and in the text has added the time points for each of the styles to be able to do a back to back comparison.  In fact, I'll change my version to his above

ICBM

Interesting. The Baggs sounds relatively better there - it still has a bit too much bottom-end boom and piezo-y attack, but it's fuller and more natural-sounding than last time. The K&K sounds thinner and harsher than before, especially when playing very hard.

I also thought the K&K sound much more - possibly too - dynamic, and you can see this in the DAW waveforms as well as the huge output volume difference, as Matt says.

Is that the actual acoustic sound alone that we hear at the end, recorded via the speech mic? If so, the Baggs does actually sound closer to the natural tone of the guitar. (Regardless of the quality of that mic!)

Andyjr1515

ICBM said:

Interesting. The Baggs sounds relatively better there - it still has a bit too much bottom-end boom and piezo-y attack, but it's fuller and more natural-sounding than last time. The K&K sounds thinner and harsher than before, especially when playing very hard.

I also thought the K&K sound much more - possibly too - dynamic, and you can see this in the DAW waveforms as well as the huge output volume difference, as Matt says.

Is that the actual acoustic sound alone that we hear at the end, recorded via the speech mic? If so, the Baggs does actually sound closer to the natural tone of the guitar. (Regardless of the quality of that mic!)

Yes - he wasn't plugged in anywhere at the end bit.  Fascinating, isn't it.

Andyjr1515

ICBM said:

Is that the actual acoustic sound alone that we hear at the end, recorded via the speech mic? If so, the Baggs does actually sound closer to the natural tone of the guitar. (Regardless of the quality of that mic!)

As I mention above, @ICBM , Matt is posting another video this evening with a blend of the two systems.  Now that may well be very interesting now we have that comparison with the actual acoustic tone

Andyjr1515

OK - not quite sure this adds to the discussion, but it's a bit of fun, whatever.

It's Matt's take on YMCA.  It is a mix of both pickups systems but I'm not sure what pre or post-processing, if any.  I'll try and find out:

 

Funkfingers

Andyjr1515 said:

Funkfingers said:

how was the piezo/mic balance set on the LR Baggs Anthem? 

It does flash up in the text at the beginning.  He states he has it at 50% blend as best as he could

I missed that. Probably while I was answering the telephone, leaving the video running in the background. 

Not to worry.

The YMCA video is an excellent advert for both the player and the instrument. I wish that I could get past that plasticky piezo edginess but I can not.