Amp emulation software vs. quiet amp

Tex Mexico

So, just lately the guys from That Pedal Show put up an interesting video where they discussed their experience of using guitar amp emulation software as compared to the real thing at home-studio volumes. Unsurprisingly given their general aesthetic tastes they came down hard on the side of real, while acknowledging that other people, heavy bands in particular, do achieve good results with emulation.

I've been using amp emulation since the early days when multieffects started coming with cab modelling, right up to now, and have rarely if ever found a sound that I was completely happy with and/or didn't require aggressive post-production to sit in a mix.

Just lately I've been in a position to put together a bit of a home studio and I've started recording real amps, albeit at quieter volumes for the sake of my neighbours. In all instances I've found that even arbitrarily sticking an SM58 in front of a speaker and recording whatever reasonable sound yielded results which not only sat in a mix without much work, but also sounded far, far better than a carefully-crafted preset on a current virtual amp rig.

It's interesting because it validates one piece of received wisdom while giving the lie to another. It proves (in my case at least) that a real amp mixes and sounds better than a fake one, while also disproving that said amp needs to be cranked to paint-melting volumes to get the required tone.

It's led me to think back to the times I have recorded real amps, and although at the time I didn't make the connection, it's generally true that I had a harder time working with the guitar sounds that were recorded through a blazing hot amp.

So obviously there are some amps which need to be turned up to get them to behave in the way you want, but it made me wonder if it's ever really necessary to really crank a master-volume amp in a studio situation, or if you're not just making life a bit harder for yourself down the line?

What experiences have you guys had with this?

TheBigDipper

I'm going through this process right now. It's a constant tradeoff between player convenience and listening satisfaction.

All opinions are mine, on my experiences and with my knowledge and effort at learning how things work. Yours may well be different. Because of volume levels, I've not been using a live amp into a mic - yet...   

I've got an HX FX (which I love) that I use with analogue amps. I've also been using a Headrush Gigboard that I bought for a specific project which has now been abandoned due to Covid. I'm not sure if I'll keep it or not. It's great, but I don't really need it any more and don't know when it would get used. 

So, initially I was recording using the amp sims that come with Garageband iOS and Logic Pro X. They're not terrible, but they're not inspiring or particularly lovely to listen to, IMHO. Probably just me and my desire to just get something recorded and not spend the time to refine the sounds I'm getting. But perfectly fine for getting a musical idea down to share with other people who are collaborating with you. 

Moving on... the Gigboard can produce some lovely clean amp tones (which I use a lot) and some lovely heavy, distorted tones (which I rarely use) but I don't feel very convinced by the intermediate crunchy ones. Again, I'm prepared to accept that it's just me - but I'd rather play guitar with a nice basic amp tone than sort out the perfect modeller tone. It records well either using itself as the audio interface or through an external interface. Monitoring is easier/better using my Presonus iTwo. The more effects you add to the amp model, the better it sounds.

I've also recently bought an interesting little box from Robin Armstrong (of Cosmograf). It's the ArmAudio L850. Essentially, just an L-Pad (I think) based silent load box for 8Ohm speaker loads at up to 50W. The output is not intended to drive a speaker at lower volume levels. There is no speaker level output. There is a line level output with a volume control for feeding your audio interface. The idea is you send your signal into an audio interface and use a speaker cabinet IR plugin in the channel strip. It works. More importantly, it works for me and my level of ability as a recording engineer. I've not yet even used a plugin IR, as I've also got a Bluguitar Blubox, so I send the signal into that on it's way to the PreSonus.

I'm getting the best and most natural sounding guitars so far - without pushing my limited knowledge on how to work with modellers. They sit nicely in a mix without me fiddling with EQ or compression too much. I'm using an 8W Carr Mercury and a 6W Cornford Harlequin. I've also got a Bluguitar AMP1, but that doesn't need anything to run safely without a speaker.

Because I can buy Helix Native cheaply (as an HX FX user) I'm also trialing that - but it's not sounding any better than the Gigboard, so I don't see me buying it when the trial ends. But I've got another 10 days to carry on seeing how I do. 

So, for me it seems that I get best results using a real amp when I'm recording - albeit simulating the speaker. But I'm happy to use the amp sims in the DAW when just getting ideas down. 

Bl**dy hell, another essay! :-) 

andy_k

I like to use various drive pedals into a clean valve amp, and got a Mooer Radar to stick on the end of my pedals as a way to cut the amp out of the chain completely. I found I could get a good match at gig volume of pedals / amp vs pedals direct to PA, and also tried an experiment at home with pedals / amp line out into Focusrite interface VS DI guitar and amp sim software.
I used a splitter to get the signal from my pedals into a Marshall Class 5 head then through the Radar for cab sims, while getting a DI of just the guitar.
It was a useful exercise, and I am glad I tried it, its a versatile setup, but TBH I am happy to mainly work with DI and amp sim, in my case I am using the Slate version of Overloud THU, and it is possibly the best sounding stuff I have heard.
My tones are not that complicated, and I always seem to end up with the same one, basically variations on the Brown sound, but I do like loud clean Fender tones too. I think cleans are a bit harder to get right, compared to compressed gainy sounds, and dynamics are a bit harder to control using sims for clean-but I found that clip gain on the DI is a good way of managing sections in production. 
Its all good fun.

PolarityMan

We actually hung a bunch of mics in a studio for our last EP then shit it out against a kemper.......we used the kemper.

Danny1969

For heavy sounds, the Kemper and the Axefx are very good. A producer friend of mine gets some amazing metal tones that stack really well using them. For the kind of music I write though real amps generally sound better to me. I've turned the under stairs area into an amp room with a Marshall, A fender HRD and a Bugera Matchless copy plus an old SS Fender amp with a lovely clean tone. All those amps were brought 2nd hand, combined cost less than a Helix. It's so cool just moving the mic from one to another and hitting record. I never had that when I had a 3000 sqft recording studio .

For practice though I use a few aps and an iRig on my phone and it doesn't sound too bad. 

WiresDreamDisasters

I use it all. Depends on the situation. I've released stuff with real amps and modelled amps. I reamped some DI's for a few bands I mixed. Can't even remember if they knew.

pintspiller

I've haven't liked the amp sims I've tried since I started working on a DAW for recording. 

The Torpedo Captor has been a godsend, I'd used a Behringer GDI before that which gave up the ghost.

Back in the 4-track days, I used to plug the line-out from my amps into the mixer and it worked quite well. I'd mic'ed up my amps using the microphones that came with my Amstrad package but it sounded nothing like Nirvana, Neil Young & Crazy Horse, The Stooges, GunsN'Roses or whoever i was trying to emulate at the time.

I've thought of trying a DI before my amp to try reamping, but I'm quite fond of the results with the Captor (using Fane or Greenback IRs).