Domestic air conditioning noise nuisance

TheBigDipper

One for the hive mind of tFB, please...

Next door has installed three air-con units - one for the kitchen, one for the lounge and one for a bedroom. Our neighbour (she is a recluse avoiding all contact whenever possible) doesn't like to open windows when it gets hot.

Two are on the far side of her house, and not an issue for us, but one is fitted on a hard wall, in a corner, over a patio. The sound it generates is annoying to the point we can't use much of our back garden when it's on.

Mid-afternoon, when it gets really hot, we have a shady spot at the end of our garden which is 15m away from that unit but the noise it makes is obtrusive enough that we cannot sit there at the time we need it the most. By late evening, she's moved to the other side of her house and turned it off. 

Her son (who arranged for it to be fitted in the first place) doesn't live there, but was delegated to deal with us as we started complaining. She wouldn't even open the door to me! He's built a box to put it in. It didn't help much. He increased the amount of sound absorbing material. It did help, but not enough. Neither job was done by a sound-proofing specialist. Then, because we still could hear it, he called in the council to get their advice. 

The upshot is the measurements the council chappie took aren't enough for it to be considered a statutory nuisance. Yes, we can hear it, but the legislation needs bigger numbers than he already has. He can advise next door further on what they might do, but he can't force them to do anything (he says). 

So, I'd like to find out what else I can do if next door doesn't do anything else. The box could be improved (apparently) and the way it's fitted to the wall could be improved (apparently). 

Apart from "Statutory Nuisance" is there any other category of nuisance I could explore? 

Anyone had any experience of this sort of thing?

Ta. 

skunkwerx

Not much ya can do I dont think.. 

Except play guitar at the same levels, as clearly all is fair in war.

spark240

Are you able to mount anything on your land to attenuate the noise?..

fretmeister

The law of nuisance is a convoluted in a way that makes copyright look simple.

Speak to a specialist. But be aware it will not be cheap in the slightest. Nuisance disputes between neighbours are always disproportionately expensive.


Probably the cheapest way to get some views on whether the unit itself can be improved would be to ask professional AC supplier / fitter to give a quote for improving the sound deadening.

Dominic

No, there is absolutely nothing that you can ascribe to noise pollution or planning requirement and air con is considered an entitled easement in the same way as a boiler flue ( there are numerous cases of condensate clouds being litigious)
There is no such thing as sound proofing in these types of environments and consultants and M and E engineers who we deal with regularly go to great length to refer to Sound Reduction Systems specifically not loosely calling them  "sound proofing ".
 Whether they are cassette type units or have separate condensers the motors will be relatively noisy .Very expensive Daikin units are sometimes fitted with suppressors  in Hotel environments etc but the reduction level is fairly negligible .
  You cannot fix boxing with truly effective sound proofing quilting because the motors in the units will overheat .
Your best bet is to install some sound baffle screening but it's not pretty (unless you have instant climbing plants ) and is designed for House fencing where it borders motorways, train lines etc

Funkfingers

Can you locate a noxious entitled easement on your side of boundary? Cess tank, a domestic heating fuel container, keep pigs or chickens? 

skunkwerx

Just remembered, when I went to Seville last year, we rented a place off air bnb for a few days. 

Anyway, in winter it gets as low as 15 degrees which is basically summer over here.. when we went it was 40.. so I died immediately. 

Anyway the place we stayed in was in an apartment complex. 

Each bedroom had an air con unit and my God was it glorious. 

I slept with that shit on all night long. 

Woke up with a light frosting of ice over my balls. 

I can sleep through noise, I actually prefer it, but I don’t remember it being any noisier than having a fan going.. inside.. 

Now it makes me wonder how pissed the residents were.. I know the outside of the building had several massive Mitsubishi units attached to the wall.. I imagine these are motors? I bet they made a racket come to think of it lol!! 

TheBigDipper

skunkwerx said:

Just remembered, when I went to Seville last year, we rented a place off air bnb for a few days. 

Anyway, in winter it gets as low as 15 degrees which is basically summer over here.. when we went it was 40.. so I died immediately. 

Anyway the place we stayed in was in an apartment complex. 

Each bedroom had an air con unit and my God was it glorious. 

I slept with that shit on all night long. 

Woke up with a light frosting of ice over my balls. 

I can sleep through noise, I actually prefer it, but I don’t remember it being any noisier than having a fan going.. inside.. 

Now it makes me wonder how pissed the residents were.. I know the outside of the building had several massive Mitsubishi units attached to the wall.. I imagine these are motors? I bet they made a racket come to think of it lol!! 

I agree, but Seville isn't a dormitory village on the edge of the New Forest and Christchurch. If you live in a city where it's hot and humid, then air conditioning is something many people will have. So no-one sits out when it's really hot. They all hide from the sun, close their windows and turn it on. You can't hear the fans running cos you're inside your own home. 

Unfortunately, my neighbour is one of those people who never opens her windows and doors (no idea why, but it's up to her). So her house gets hot. She's chosen a solution that works for her but dumps noise onto us that she cannot hear. We choose to have the windows and doors open to let a cool breeze through and cultivated a garden spot that's really cool and (used to be) quiet. She had her unit running a couple of weeks ago when it was only 17C outside in mid afternoon. 

TBH, I feel let down by the council. We didn't call them in, as we were trying to resolve things in a neighbourly fashion. Next door did, for "advice". Free consultancy, basically. Now they'll feel empowered to run it whenever they like. I guess the advice they wanted was "do what you like". Well, they got it. The council chap could hear the noise and understood why it was a nuisance to us, but the legislation isn't subjective, it's an objective measurement which has failed to protect us. 

jellyroll

Our neighbours just installed air-conditioning. Camden council made them take it out.....there are new rules apparently around meeting green criteria. So you could check what your local planning rules are. (NB another neighbour installed aircon a couple of years ago and that was passed, so these rules in Camden are pretty new).

scrumhalf

Record it and play it back at appropriate volume. At an inappropriate time.

bobblehat

If its that close to your property They should have fitted a purpose built acoustic enclosure. They would have more than likely been advised to fit one by the installer but unfortunately for you these are very expensive. Noise reduction is a bit more complicated than just sticking a bit of sound absorption around something and never a DIY job. I also suspect its location is also down to saving money.Cheaper units have restrictions on pipe lengths and its also makes the install cheaper if the outdoor unit is close to the indoor unit. She could also reduce noise by raising her internal set point a couple of degrees. Sounds like she just runs it flat out on its coldest setting. 

TheBigDipper

scrumhalf said:

Record it and play it back at appropriate volume. At an inappropriate time.

Already on my list of things to do if I have to. 

fretmeister

TheBigDipper said:

scrumhalf said:

Record it and play it back at appropriate volume. At an inappropriate time.

Already on my list of things to do if I have to. 

Don't do that.

If what they are doing is legal then your actions won't be and they will be able to seek damages from you.

fob

Have you got her phone number? If the noise is a problem just phone her up and tell her so. If she doesn't do anything put the phone down and phone straight back politely requesting she turn it off - ad infinitum. It might be a small war of attrition initially but you could perhaps train her not to use that particular unit while you're there.

TheBigDipper

fretmeister said:

TheBigDipper said:

scrumhalf said:

Record it and play it back at appropriate volume. At an inappropriate time.

Already on my list of things to do if I have to. 

Don't do that.

If what they are doing is legal then your actions won't be and they will be able to seek damages from you.

I know.... but it's nice to think that I could if I wanted to and get away with it. Even though I know I won't and I can't. .

The frustrating thing about this is that she isn't going to be affected by anything I do because I'm naturally neighbourly and legal. She already blanks everyone else living around her (we're a sort of close/cul-de-sac that's been built like a small hamlet), never uses her garden, never opens the windows and doors and the houses are detached. So she just sits inside the house and the noisy part of her air-con setup doesn't disturb her in the slightest. 

We're discussing coping strategies at the moment. I suspect all neighbourly cooperation from their side is about to stop.

TheBigDipper

fob said:

Have you got her phone number? If the noise is a problem just phone her up and tell her so. If she doesn't do anything put the phone down and phone straight back politely requesting she turn it off - ad infinitum. It might be a small war of attrition initially but you could perhaps train her not to use that particular unit while you're there.

We don't have her number and she often doesn't answer the door. I'm not sure what we can do if she uses it now, TBH. If the council can't stop her because it doesn't break the thresholds of the measurements in the legislation, then doesn't that make her entitled to use it whenever she likes? And therefore persistently asking her to turn it down constitutes harassment? 

I don't know.... 

Dominic

jellyroll said:

Our neighbours just installed air-conditioning. Camden council made them take it out.....there are new rules apparently around meeting green criteria. So you could check what your local planning rules are. (NB another neighbour installed aircon a couple of years ago and that was passed, so these rules in Camden are pretty new).

It's not to do with part L and emissivity compliance which is a Building Regulation issue ......and even if there was a question of this it can be overcome by modelling a SAPS score against Solar Gain
It will be a planning issue to do with the visual impediment of the location requiring consent.
It may be a Conservation Area with a section 4 notice which withdraws these things from being covered under permitted development .

thumpingrug

Try mediation.

Ive worked with Mediation Dorset in the past and they can be helpful but its not a guarentee

http://www.mediationdorset.co.uk/public/index.php

The problem with neighbour issues is that the law is often not on your side and even if it is you still have to live next door and maintain some sort of relationship with then after you have made complaints.  To be honest it sounds like the son has recognised the problem and continuing to speak to him, especially if you can get him to come and have a listen and se it from your point of view, might be the best way forward.    Also sounds like mum might have some issues of her own.

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/housing/problems-where-you-live/complaining-about-your-neighbour/

Dominic

How 's meditation going to help ?

ourmaninthenorth

.

fretmeister

Mediation (not meditation!) can be extremely useful.
Allows each side to fully grasp the others in what should be a non-combative environment. If the mediator is any good anyway.