Any 1970-80's MIJ experts about?

Kittyfrisk

I was restringing my 1970's-80's MIJ 'Maya" branded LP today & decided to have a closer look at the construction.

 It has a set neck with a very slightly shorter neck tenon than some examples of 'long tenon' joints I have seen, although I reckon it looks to be much better fitted than many of Gibson's rather vague examples 
Is this a long tenon or something else, like the often discussed Gibson 'transitional' joint?

No idea of the significance (if any) of the letter markings in the pickup cavity but the solid maple cap can be seen clearly.

 The pots seem to be of the 'Noble' brand which would be correct for the date of the guitar, but I have no idea at all about the pickups as the numbers stamped on them aren't showing up on web searches..
Any thoughts chaps?

Adey

You can't beat a nice Maya. Probably made in Chushin factory.

I have a Bambu, which is related to the brand made by the Maya Musical Instrument Company

The pick up numbers look like the sort of thing on Maxons to me. Are they the ones with two screw to adjust them or the three screw type?

Adey

The writing in the pickup cavity is usually something to do with the finish on the guitar. Presumably so that the person doing the spraying applies the correct finish.

Looks a very nice guitar. Any full frontal pics?

Kittyfrisk

Hi @Adey ; yes I love Maya's, I have several electric & acoustics & they vary from plywood garage thrashers to very high end constructions.
The pickups on the LP are 2 screw adjustment, the tuners are Gotoh, the ABR-1 bridge & stop bar are MIJ Tokiwa & are solid brass as are all the screws on the guitar 
Anything else that you want to know, just ask.

Adey

I'd be very happy to have yours. It looks beautifully made - 7 ply binding and everything. And not stupidly blingy like many more modern knock-off with their highly quilted tops...

A recent aquisition?

Adey

Assuming your pickups are Maxons, the numbering says they were made in 1979, on 7th April apparently.

ICBM

Maxon. That's from the same factory as many of the Ibanez and Antorias going by that, the machineheads and the overall build - really well-made guitars.

For what it's worth that's the right length for a neck tenon - any shorter is weaker, any longer makes no difference - but the gap on the treble side isn't great! It's the tightness of the fit on the sides that provides most of the strength, not the fit on the bottom or the end. Still, it may just be a chip at the end of the pocket rout and not go very deep into the joint. The offset to the bass side so the side wall of the body along the cutaway is thicker is also a good design feature.

It's probably worth fixing the neck volume and tone pots - they've been overtightened and twisted round, and there's a risk of the tone cap breaking or the terminals shorting on the tone pot. The volume should align with the shape of the routed recess and the tone should be roughly at the same angle as the bridge one but in the opposite direction, if that makes sense!

If it ever matters I think I have a couple of those machineheads spare...

Kittyfrisk

Adey said:

I'd be very happy to yours. It looks beautifully made - 7 ply binding and everything. And not stupidly blingy like many more modern knock-off with their highly quilted tops...

A recent aquisition?

No, I bought it & the others years ago before Maya's became 'collectable' and prices started to get silly.
Thanks for the Maxon info. that pretty much fits with my guesstimate of the guitars age.

Kittyfrisk

ICBM said:

Maxon. That's from the same factory as many of the Ibanez and Antorias going by that, the machineheads and the overall build - really well-made guitars.

For what it's worth that's the right length for a neck tenon - any shorter is weaker, any longer makes no difference - but the gap on the treble side isn't great! It's the tightness of the fit on the sides that provides most of the strength, not the fit on the bottom or the end. Still, it may just be a chip at the end of the pocket rout and not go very deep into the joint. The offset to the bass side so the side wall of the body along the cutaway is thicker is also a good design feature.

It's probably worth fixing the neck volume and tone pots - they've been overtightened and twisted round, and there's a risk of the tone cap breaking or the terminals shorting on the tone pot. The volume should align with the shape of the routed recess and the tone should be roughly at the same angle as the bridge one but in the opposite direction, if that makes sense!

If it ever matters I think I have a couple of those machineheads spare...

Thanks for that. Really useful to have a proper expert cast a neutral eye over things  
I hadn't even considered the orientation of the pots, all I know is that I didn't do it 
Cheers, much obliged.

AK99

That is a decent looking guitar - well made too.

The short/medium/long tenon thing is always a 'thing' in Tokai circles - with the long tenon being the Holy Grail/more expensive one. There is a fair bit of confusion about what people are referring to when talking about  a 'long tenon' - whether they are talking the tenon itself, or the length of the 'lip' that extends into the pickup cavity.

There is a good explanation and a pic about 5 or 6 posts in to this thread on the Tokai Forum which helps explain it, if you can access it:

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8444

Essentially: 

The only difference between a standard tokai tenon and the so-called 'long' version is that the long tenon has a lip that extends under the neck pickup. How much difference do you think that lip makes? They only started putting long tenons on the high end models because of the demand for true vintage spec.

 and..

 Forget bout that lip anyway - the main thing is the length until the neck pu cavitiy, and much more important the straight flat bottom of the tenon. That?s where the tone is made, where the neck meets the body, and thats the main point (beside the quality of the woods) where good sounding Les Paul style guitars come alive.

I have a couple of Tokai LPs which have a similar short lip to that one of yours - which I always thought was a short tenon - but based on the threads above, isn't

JezWynd

Love that headstock design, it's like a stylish Epiphone.

Kittyfrisk

AK99 said:

That is a decent looking guitar - well made too.

The short/medium/long tenon thing is always a 'thing' in Tokai circles - with the long tenon being the Holy Grail/more expensive one. There is a fair bit of confusion about what people are referring to when talking about  a 'long tenon' - whether they are talking the tenon itself, or the length of the 'lip' that extends into the pickup cavity.

There is a good explanation and a pic about 5 or 6 posts in to this thread which helps explain it, if you can access it:

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8444

Essentially: 

The only difference between a standard tokai tenon and the so-called 'long' version is that the long tenon has a lip that extends under the neck pickup. How much difference do you think that lip makes? They only started putting long tenons on the high end models because of the demand for true vintage spec.

 and..

 Forget bout that lip anyway - the main thing is the length until the neck pu cavitiy, and much more important the straight flat bottom of the tenon. That?s where the tone is made, where the neck meets the body, and thats the main point (beside the quality of the woods) where good sounding Les Paul style guitars come alive.

I have a couple of Tokai LPs which have a similar short lip to that one of yours - which I always thought was a short tenon - but based on the threads above, isn't

Good points.
I just had a look at my MIJ Tokai LS-85 & it has no lip/tenon extending into the pickup cavity.
This is it, complete with scratchplate bikini tan line 

Kittyfrisk

JezWynd said:

Love that headstock design, it's like a stylish Epiphone.

I imagine that view might divide opinion on here    I quite like it too, but I don't tend to suffer from headstock polarisation.
They did do some other styles...  

AK99

I do like that white LoveRock body  

On the tenon thing - my '02 vintage LS65 does have a bit of a lip:





Cracker guitars these Jap LoveRocks

ICBM

Short tenon - shorter than the fingerboard so the neck is completely hidden when you look in the pickup cavity, or you can see the end of it but the sides of it don't go all the way to the pickup cavity.

Medium tenon - as here, the side walls of the tenon go all the way to the pickup cavity, and there is a short 'tongue' in the floor of the cavity (which is to allow routing the pocket with a circular bit).

Long tenon - the 'tongue' extends further across the pickup cavity floor.

From a woodworking point of view there is no structural benefit to a long tenon over a medium one. The strength is not actually provided by the floor of the tenon, it's the tightness of the fit at the sides where the glue is in pure shear loading that matters.

In fact, despite the horrible look of the sectioned Gibson joints that have been posted many times, that is why Gibson do it like that - they know it doesn't really make any difference. The bigger problem is that they also fit badly for width, so they have to be shimmed on the sides as well, and that really does weaken the joint.

AK99

^ Every day is a learning day - good stuff ICBM

mbe

JezWynd said:

Love that headstock design, it's like a stylish Epiphone.

Obviously that is the antecedent and inspiration for the Epiphone 'authentic' headstock.