Fender Excelsior cab project - individual grab and go amp, some questions also...

thecolourbox

Thanks to the kind and generous gentleman @koneguitarist I now have in my spare room a Fender Excelsior 1x152 cabinet, with the original Fender speaker. As I was holidaying in the general area I was able to pop by Mr Koneguitarist's place and pick up the cab he was generously giving away for free as the actual amp had been rehoused into a new cab. I have made a donation to Cancer research in return because I wanted to pass the good deed forwards

Here is the lovely cab (wish I could make my images a bit smaller...). Mr Koneguitarist has kindly already soldered the spekaer connections to a jack which is sat in a piece of wood screwed into the top section:






I fancied it for a little project with a few elements (detail in next reply), I'm normally rubbish at projects but this one seems achievable not least because there are several Plan B options I could pursue if what I want doesn't quite work! But basically to use it as a cab with a modelling unit or preamp and a small power amp inside the cab for ease, but with a much more cool looking exterior than the average black box with speaker. Thought it might make an interesting thread as well as giving me an opportunity to ask silly questions and learn. Making and modding, or Amps though? Who knows

First impressions are that it's a nice size, slightly bigger than i'd normally go for but as the dimensions seemed to suit the modelling unit I use (more on this in next reply!) I thought it could be actually a good unit for me to use as and when I'm allowed to go to open mic nights or similar, using the sounds I'm used to at a home and also having the DI output from the modelling unit for PA purposes if required as well.

So, on to the intended changes, additions, amendments, and my stupid questions about these things

Thanks again to the wonderful @koneguitarist, I'm only sorry I could not stay longer to chat but I had my lady in the car who was in the early stages of hanger whilst ordering our takeaway for the evening...

thecolourbox

Job #1 - Adding preamp to cab.
I had seen the dimensions of the cab were 19.5", which I thought would be ideal to house the 1u Digitech GSP1101 modelling unit I use at home, enabling me to slide it in or out at the bottom of the cab as required. I usually play through studio monitors at home. And yes! Good news is, it fits beautifully in the gap.

Ahhh but wait, I'm a silly sausage. I didn't even think about the depth required did I! Numpty dumpty. There's not enough room at the back to fit in the kettle lead, output cables, footswitch etc. Darn it!

There is no way to make that work in that position sadly. Though please correct me if I'm wrong and you have a bright idea! So far my three back up plans for this would be:
a) Use a different modelling unit or preamp - Digitech RP360 has all the same models and could sit easily on velcro at the bottom as it's much smaller, so could try to pick up a cheap one and just recreate my presets on one of those. Down the line if I get tired of the Digitech stuff (though it suits me pretty well) there are plenty of small Amp-In-a-Box type pedals or modelling units these days. In theory, could use a basic cheap pedal board recreating that preset - I use Bassman model edge of breakup for clean, add compressor as a boost for drive, then add fuzz for Jack White ish craziness, so add a DI in there and that could work into the mini power amp in Job #2 below. Also concerned a bit at the knobs sticking out...
b) Try to get the top bit modified so the preamp sits at the top of the cab at the back, and I move the speaker jack elsewhere. This would require woodwork I'm unable to achieve myself, so would have to take it to somebody skilled in cutting and recovering with the existing tolex.
c) Add some battens as a "shelf" on either side inside the back of the amp, so the preamp sits on them with display facing upwards and connections facing downwards. Not sure of speaker clearance/proximity yet but should be able to work that out whether it's feasible. Could put screw holes there to secure it when in place perhaps

Job #2 - Adding mini power amp inside cab.
Thinking something like the little EHX pedal power amps, velcroed to the side or bottom or wherever it'll fit. There are a few these days and even some proper amps that are tiny that could work with this. Problem being here though is not knowing the watts of the speaker - I know it's 8ohm, but the wattage limit is not listed anywhere reliable and I've seen mentions of 25 or 50 watts via Google with no real authority on it anywhere. Anybody got any ideas on this? 25 watts solid state might be pushing it a bit for volume playing in public (though obviously more than adequate for home), but I'm not very experience with 15" speakers to know if that makes up for it a bit maybe. 

Job #3 - Adding a new logo
This is a silly trivial  but fun one, but there is usually an Excelsior logo on the middle stripe of the E shape, which I think was probably used on the rehouse cab. This gives me the option to add some sort of logo myself instead, for full "custom" novelty/vanity. Perhaps a letter M (my initial) in leather or wood, perhaps a "thecolourbox" related logo if I can persuade the Mrs to cut it out for me with her diecutter machine thing. 

Job #4 - Varnish/Stain top panel
Once I've established that the top panel with the jack in it can remain there, I will probably varnish/stain it so it looks nice - I'm quite comfortable doing this.

Should be fun!

Funkfingers

Anything mounted that low in the cabinet is asking to be trodden on or kicked. Plus, how can you read the editing screen down there?

Put the pre-amp in a rack case. By all means, put a compact power amplifier inside the Excelsior cabinet.

It might prove simpler to integrate all of your pre- and power amp functions into an all-in-one device.

thecolourbox said:

… my lady in the car, who was in the early stages of hanger, whilst ordering our takeaway for the evening...

Black pudding again, huh?

thecolourbox

Funkfingers said:

Anything mounted that low in the cabinet is asking to be trodden on or kicked. Plus, how can you read the editing screen down there?

Put the pre-amp in a rack case. By all means, put a compact power amplifier inside the Excelsior cabinet.

It might prove simpler to integrate all of your pre- and power amp functions into an all-in-one device.

Yes the bottom position won't work, but I don't really want another case to carry so didn't put that as a plan B. I'd rather just get the smaller RP360 or cheap pedals I think instead and would probably cost similar. I can't seem to find a suitable proper amp to plug into the cab so think this is best way to go hopefully...

Funkfingers said:

thecolourbox said:

… my lady in the car, who was in the early stages of hanger, whilst ordering our takeaway for the evening...

Black pudding again, huh?

Ooo errr. 

steamabacus

Bit of lateral thinking ....

That cab looks taller than it is wide - would the Digitech unit fit in vertically?

Of course. you've still got the problem of the depth - would replacing the IEC connector with a hard-wired cable and using flat pancake jacks for the input/output enable you to squeeze it in there?

Maybe it could fit in vertically but slightly diagonally (across the width of the cab) and still be made accessible? (ie the rear of the rack unit towards one edge and the front more to the centre)

thecolourbox

steamabacus said:

Bit of lateral thinking ....

That cab looks taller than it is wide - would the Digitech unit fit in vertically?

Of course. you've still got the problem of the depth - would replacing the IEC connector with a hard-wired cable and using flat pancake jacks for the input/output enable you to squeeze it in there?

Maybe it could fit in vertically but slightly diagonally (across the width of the cab) and still be made accessible? (ie the rear of the rack unit towards one edge and the front more to the centre)

The most literal example of lateral thinking I've ever seen Impressive stuff!

It is taller than it is wide yes (21" i think) but I still reckon the access to the back of the unit is going to be the issue there. I've no idea how to replace the power socket to be honest, and it seems like it would be easier to just use a different unit. I see where you're going with the diagonal thing but it would be tricky to hold it place at that angle as it would stick out a bit. the rack ears wouldn't be able to secure to anything I don't think.

I reckon if I am to use the GSP, then it would have to be horizontally but with screen/knobs pointing up and the outputs/power facing downwards. But that would require either the battens as a shelf or the top of the cab being cut up.

Ebay suggests £80 ish for a Digitech RP360, or if I got some pedals probably less than that (Maybe like American sound £20, cheap mini compressor and mini reverb say £20 each again, already got Fuzz, though might need a DI on top as well). Think that's possibly the best way to go at this point but who knows

JezWynd

I have one of these cabs with original speaker. I was going to transplant the amp from my Laney Cub 10 into it, went so far as to cut the top to fit the wider Cub control panel before having a change of heart as the amp section would only be supported by two screws from the top - as I use it as a bass amp I figured vibration would be a problem. Currently sees use as an ext cab with a Palmer Eins 1w head. Sounds good even though the speaker gets a lot of scorn on't Web.

thecolourbox

JezWynd said:

I have one of these cabs with original speaker. I was going to transplant the amp from my Laney Cub 10 into it, went so far as to cut the top to fit the wider Cub control panel before having a change of heart as the amp section would only be supported by two screws from the top - as I use it as a bass amp I figured vibration would be a problem. Currently sees use as an ext cab with a Palmer Eins 1w head. Sounds good even though the speaker gets a lot of scorn on't Web.

Ironically, it was when I was looking for your Laney sale thread in my bookmarks as I was in the Somerset/Devon area, that I was reminded of Koneguitarist's thread also in my bookmarks, and my scribbled down idea for that jumped back into my mind so I went for that!

Trying to get an amp rehoused or built into it did cross my mind but I like the flexibility to change what I'm using in my plan, whereas committing to butcher an amp into the cab could be a waste of time if the amp doesn't quite cover what I want. Whereas the modelling unit gets me the sound I like already, so would only need a bit of tweaking to get it working with the proper cab speaker rather than the speaker sims. Getting an actual amp head I think would be tricky to find one small enough to fit inside and be powerful enough to play in public with.

andy_k

Would your Digitech fit front to back if you put it in at an angle, imagine lifting it at the front from the bottom position? Maybe 45 degrees =parallel to the speaker cone?. you could put battens in the box so the unit slides down, like a drawer, would this leave clearance for cables.
I have built a few Fuzzdog Noisy Crickets which are plenty loud enough through a 4 x 12, and one of these could be permanently fixed to the cab itself.
Just ideas.

thecolourbox

andy_k said:

Would your Digitech fit front to back if you put it in at an angle, imagine lifting it at the front from the bottom position? Maybe 45 degrees =parallel to the speaker cone?. you could put battens in the box so the unit slides down, like a drawer, would this leave clearance for cables.
I have built a few Fuzzdog Noisy Crickets which are plenty loud enough through a 4 x 12, and one of these could be permanently fixed to the cab itself.
Just ideas.

I'm not sure whether that would give me any better access to the back panel than just putting it in straight, I'll try holding it there and seeing what space there is. Kettle leads are not very bendy at the IEC end so can't just tug the cable down as it'll probably wear out the cable and cause an issue. I'll see how steep it could go to see what space is then available and if I can secure it on the battens without the rack ears sticking out front.

It's also worth pointing out that if I used the rack unit in the horizontal position, I will still require to purchase a DI box as I would not be able to get XLR cables from the back of the unit given the connectors are massive. 

PhilKing

There are right angle IEC and XLR connectors, which will help you a bit.

thecolourbox

PhilKing said:

There are right angle IEC and XLR connectors, which will help you a bit.

Good tip thank you, I will have a look to see if I can find any that are right angled in the right direction. thank you

MattNovak

I'd get an EHX .44 Magnum power amp (pedal size) or the Crate power block (larger than a pedal) mounted in the cab and then pick up a floor pod (or pod and board)... if you're not dead set on footswitchable sounds, keep an eye out on ebay for a cheap multi-fx to  mount in the cab too - even better, an old Yamaha Pandoras Box (size of a pack of fags). 

 

thecolourbox

MattNovak said:

I'd get an EHX .44 Magnum power amp (pedal size) or the Crate power block (larger than a pedal) mounted in the cab and then pick up a floor pod (or pod and board)... if you're not dead set on footswitchable sounds, keep an eye out on ebay for a cheap multi-fx to  mount in the cab too - even better, an old Yamaha Pandoras Box (size of a pack of fags). 

 

I think it'll have to be the 22 Caliber rather than the 44 Magnum as I'm thinking the speaker is only a 25 watt rating (though there seems no way to confirm this).

I don't want a pod or helix as I like the sound of my Digitech much more, but the principle is the same yes. The Rp360 is cheap and has the same sounds so that is an option still.

thecolourbox

Right, some updates, though still very much in the theoretical stages at the moment.

Job #1. Still keeping an eye out for a cheap Digitech RP360, but also entertaining ideas of separate pedals and an "amp in a box" type pedal as combined costs aren't much different - seen some interesting looking Donner preamp pedals for example also. There's a couple of Blackstar HT Duals going cheap in classifieds but I think they will be too modern in style for my sounds, however boost/comp whacking the front of the valve based clean channel could be a goer, with a bit of eq. There don't seem to be valvey bassman/tweedy type preamps at the cheap end of things

Job #2. I'm blind so I hadn't seen the label on the underside of the speaker magnet (thanks ICBM for getting me to look again). It is a 50watt speaker so indeed the EHX .44 Magnum would work, or even any number of small amp heads I guess thoughs some will not fit inside as I initially intended. Perhaps one of those DV Mark 50watt heads that Guitar Guitar were knocking out cheap would have been good, though I think they're gone now and I'd still need to buy the drive pedals so budget would be higher

Job #3 and #4 I've not really looked at yet

Funkfingers

“Oh, my fur and whiskers. I’m late, I’m late, I’m late.”

robinbowes

Mmm, I have a nice Ampmaker WF-55 chassis that would fit nicely in that cab...

thecolourbox

Funkfingers said:

“Oh, my fur and whiskers. I’m late, I’m late, I’m late.”

I'm just looking for a porpoise in life

robinbowes said:

Mmm, I have a nice Ampmaker WF-55 chassis that would fit nicely in that cab...

There's not a massive space at the top bit because the speaker is quite large and I don't think it would be deep enough to house it (probably why the original Excelsior amp was in two sections top and bottom), though i'm sure if you could get it to fit you'd have a good sounding old fashioned combo

paulnb57

robinbowes said:

Mmm, I have a nice Ampmaker WF-55 chassis that would fit nicely in that cab...

Me too!

thecolourbox

You can all keep your mitts off this one

Funkfingers

thecolourbox said:

Funkfingers said:

“Oh, my fur and whiskers. I’m late, I’m late, I’m late.”

I'm just looking for a porpoise in life.

Down a (White) Rabbit hole?