Crimson Guitars oils and other options

geetarguy85

Hi all,

I know there are a couple of similar threads out there but I wanted to talk about my specific case as there are some differences.

I'm going to be staining my next project and then want to get a hard, shiny finish on top of it. I'd prefer not having to spray anything, and have been looking into oil finishes.

I've seen that crimson have a couple of finishing oils; high build and penetrating. Does anyone have experience with either of these? Would I need to use both, or just the high build?

I have heard that they can end up lifting a little of the stain out so I guess it's best to go a bit more colourful in the stain to offset that.

Are there any other options you'd suggest?

For reference, it'll be a swamp ash body with a flamed maple cap.

I'm also thinking I'd like to get a satin finish on the neck (maple with rosewood fretboard). Would a couple of coats of oil do the trick?

Oh and final thought, from what I gather I will need to grain fill the swamp ash before staining, but not the maple?

Thanks all.

Rabs

I have used Rothko and Frost stains before..  Have a video about it
https://www.rothkoandfrost.com/guitar-making-c83/guitar-finishing-c15/stains-dyes-and-pigments-c33

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YX6IFlCEnA

I use Tru Oil...  I have not use Crimsons oil yet but it seems good...  I know as I remember when Ben was doing this that he pretty much reverse engineered (as such) Tru Oil and made a thinner version that goes on a bit smoother than Tru Oil.. BUT you can thin Tru Oil out yourself with a bit of white spirits as in this video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7YTxYJfRgg

If you want a shiny flat finish, yes you nee to fill Ash but not maple as its got such a tight grain. If you dont care about how shiny it ends up you dont really need to fill at all.. I have used Ebony dust to fill an ash body before..

As for stain coming out. Yes it will a bit, but you can spray a sanding sealer on first to lock the colour down and then oil over the top of it.

Hope that helps a bit 

geetarguy85

Thanks @Rabs , some good info there! What’s your experience with oil finishes? Are they hard wearing? Do they need topping up over time? This guitar won’t be getting gigged but I’d rather not be having to refinish it in a few years time.

Rabs

Well it depends on how you want to finish it. Some people like to put on as little as possible for the reasons that its just a nice natural finish which I think brings our the best in the wood. But obviously the lighter the finish the quicker it will wear away.. 

Tru Oil is a gunstock finish and has a hardner in it which is meant to be used and abused a bit. Which is why I think it makes a good guitar finish. Its not as delicate as just using a straight linseed or danish oil finish but still a nice natural look.

Hold on. Theres a video somewhere about that too (not me this time)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDiN9TCZkHk

Cano

I'm currently finishing a kit in Crimson oils. Not finished yet, I used penetrating oil to start with then high build.

At the moment the finish is shiny but not smooth at all. 

Some fine sanding with wet and dry probably needed next.

Build gallery here https://photos.app.goo.gl/vkP6vd1ujjZEG1Sf7

The last photos are close ups of the finish taken this morning , oil was last applied at 10pm last night. 

geetarguy85

Nice @Cano !

I'm thinking of the following plan of attack for the body:

1. Sand and grain fill the swamp ash body as per @SteveRobinson 's guide
2. Stain the body in a yet to be determined colour - OR I might just use a grain filler with some pigment to highlight the grain in an interesting colour
3. Stain the flame maple top black
4. Sand back the top to remove a lot of the black so that it just highlights the grain
5. Stain the top with the colours
6. Go over the body and top with a very fine grit paper e.g. 1500 to remove any raised grain caused by the staining
7. Apply a sanding sealer to the body and top
8. Apply first coat of penetrating oil, wipe off excess as it goes tacky, then apply another coat
9. Wait at least a day, then do a 3rd coat of penetrating oil, wait another day then do a 4th coat
10. Apply a coat of high build oil, wiping off the excess just as it goes tacky, and wait at least a day for the oil to cure somewhat
12. Repeat step 10 at least 2 or 3 times but possibly more
13. Once happy with the coats, go over it with a very fine grit wet and dry paper to level out the finish
14. Use a mild rubbing compound to buff the finish by hand
15. Apply a layer of wax e.g. turtle wax, and buff it out using a buffing pad on a drill

For the neck, I want to get to a satin finish so I’m thinking maybe 3 or 4 coats of penetrating oil should do the trick, possibly with one coat of high build?

Does anything I’ve said above sound stupid? Is there anything I need to add in, remove or change? Especially numbers of coats, time between coats?

And is there a good sanding sealer I should use? The aim of that is to prevent the stain coming out when I start rubbing in the oil.

SteveRobinson

geetarguy85 said:

Nice @Cano !

7. Apply a sanding sealer to the body and top
8. Apply first coat of penetrating oil, wipe off excess as it goes tacky, then apply another coat

The oil penetrates wood but it won't penetrate sanding sealer.

Use either oil or a lacquer finish, you can't really mix the two.

Rabs

SteveRobinson said:

geetarguy85 said:

Nice @Cano !

7. Apply a sanding sealer to the body and top
8. Apply first coat of penetrating oil, wipe off excess as it goes tacky, then apply another coat

The oil penetrates wood but it won't penetrate sanding sealer.

Use either oil or a lacquer finish, you can't really mix the two.

Hmm, Ive been watching Big D Guitars videos on youtube for years now.. He always uses a sanding sealer and while I cant say I have ever tried it, he always says you can use what ever finish you want over it including oil...  Im trying to find a vid where he specifically uses Tru Oil after.

In this vid  18:00 in he says hes using a sanding sealer and you can apply an oil over it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4vazmNBLpU

But as I say.. I havent actually ever tried it... So I would definitely do a test piece first (which is always advisable when using any new technique).

SteveRobinson

The clue is in the name "sealer".

You may well be able to lay down Tru-oil on top but what would be the point? Oils are supposed to penetrate and so enhance the wood.

Rabs

SteveRobinson said:

The clue is in the name "sealer".

You may well be able to lay down Tru-oil on top but what would be the point? Oils are supposed to penetrate and so enhance the wood.

Well in his case he only does it on the coloured burst bits, usually just the top to try and make sure the colours dont run or mix.. Then the whole guitar gets finished in oil. I get what you are saying though...  Like I say, I have never used the stuff.. Birch Casey actually to a sealer too.. Would probably be worth using if you are doing tru oil finishes and want a sealer.

I have a spray can of Tru Oil somewhere..  It would probably be a good way to seal the colour.. Oddly enough while I havent finished a whole guitar with it, I have done some tests to see how it finished and weirdly it doesnt seem to have the same amber colour that bottled Tru Oil has.

geetarguy85

I did wonder whether the oil would work on top of a sealer.

To be honest I'm not so fussed about specifically having an oil finish. I'm more interested in a finish that's relatively easy to apply and will get to a reasonable shine. Open to suggestions!

In any case I will be doing tests before applying any of this to the guitar.