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OS Rant
andy_k
Frets: 818
This is just a bit of a rant, and a plea for some advice.
I have been making music, or maybe noise, with computers for about 20 years, I never got into midi or keyboards so it was all about loops and samples on my first machines, I started on windows 3.1.
I did most of my recording on 4 track tape machines, and then early digital things like Boss recorders and Tascam multitrack devices.
In 2009 I got my first Macbook pro, and the intention was for it to be devoted to music production with Logic.
I did a music degree about 3 and a half years ago, half of the course was on Mac and Logic, and half was on Protools and Mac.
I have been quite happy with the evolution of the tech, but all that changed when I tried to get used to PT, I was continually being told it was the only serious piece of software for music recording, whilst being simultaneously being told the same thing about Logic.
I kind of went along with it for about 18 months, but then when I saw the prices of new Apple gear, and also the cost of a PT subscription without the student discount, I knew I would have to find an alternative, if I wanted to continue.
Which is when I discovered Reaper, and as soon as I got an idea of how it compared to the others, I thought I would devote time to getting to know it much better.
I did all my last years Uni work on Reaper, on both PC and Mac, and there is nothing that it could not do.
Now I am a year out of the degree, and I am still looking at ways to make sure I can continue using the computer to make music.
Given what we are all going through, there seems to be no money to be made in music, at all, for the forseeable future - for most of us.
I still do it for the enjoyment, and escapism, but my plans to build up a recording business have evaporated.
I have never been able to afford a new system, and have always upgraded to get what I needed.
You can't really do that anymore. My current Macbook is a 2010 model with SSD and max ram of 16gig, it still does what I need, but it also has all my paid for plugins, and needs an Ilok, so there is no way I would be taking it to an outside recording session.
I use a Zenbook which is pretty low spec, but can record 8 tracks live via a Zoom R16, that does the job just fine, Reaper is cross platform, and works just as well on both Mac and PC--however Windows 10 is an absolute pain. I hate it, it works ok, but there is a continual threat of things breaking with an update.
Mac's are the same now-I haven't even updated to Catalina, because the plugins haven't all been fixed, and the next OS is already out soon.
I have spent the last 2 days trying to get the 'alternative' OS to work on an older laptop, Ubuntu studio.
Jesus H christ,--it is a nightmare. The tagline is-'A free and open operating system for creative people'.
As I type this, my machine is failing at the fifth attempt to get it working.
First time, it worked fine, but was put on a partition with a dual boot of Win 7, it seemed great--I could even see all my stuff on the windows side, and copied a lot of stuff over. I went to bed feeling good.
Next day, I got an old Mbox 2 recognised, and even managed to record with it--first time, after a lot of failed attempts with other machines.
I copied the session onto the windows partition, and was able to add some plugins-all done with Reaper.
That is when it went horribly wrong, when I tried to go back into Ubuntu, it would not boot, it was like talking to an alien life form.
I have lost count of how many variation of boot sequence I have seen, so last few times I have tried fresh installs, which resulted in the screen resolution being set at 640 x 480, and no way of seeing the bottom of any dialog.
I am trying again, because when it worked it looked pretty good, almost exactly like windows, with more music software than I knew existed.
But now I am stuck, between a rock, a hard place and a very hard place.
Reaper works across all platforms, but now I don't like any of them.
When my current systems die-I think I will have to give up.
It isn't fun anymore, waiting for OS's to do what they should be able to do-operate.
That last attempt failed, so I will try one more time, and then I will be throwing a perfectly good piece of hardware in the bin.
I have been making music, or maybe noise, with computers for about 20 years, I never got into midi or keyboards so it was all about loops and samples on my first machines, I started on windows 3.1.
I did most of my recording on 4 track tape machines, and then early digital things like Boss recorders and Tascam multitrack devices.
In 2009 I got my first Macbook pro, and the intention was for it to be devoted to music production with Logic.
I did a music degree about 3 and a half years ago, half of the course was on Mac and Logic, and half was on Protools and Mac.
I have been quite happy with the evolution of the tech, but all that changed when I tried to get used to PT, I was continually being told it was the only serious piece of software for music recording, whilst being simultaneously being told the same thing about Logic.
I kind of went along with it for about 18 months, but then when I saw the prices of new Apple gear, and also the cost of a PT subscription without the student discount, I knew I would have to find an alternative, if I wanted to continue.
Which is when I discovered Reaper, and as soon as I got an idea of how it compared to the others, I thought I would devote time to getting to know it much better.
I did all my last years Uni work on Reaper, on both PC and Mac, and there is nothing that it could not do.
Now I am a year out of the degree, and I am still looking at ways to make sure I can continue using the computer to make music.
Given what we are all going through, there seems to be no money to be made in music, at all, for the forseeable future - for most of us.
I still do it for the enjoyment, and escapism, but my plans to build up a recording business have evaporated.
I have never been able to afford a new system, and have always upgraded to get what I needed.
You can't really do that anymore. My current Macbook is a 2010 model with SSD and max ram of 16gig, it still does what I need, but it also has all my paid for plugins, and needs an Ilok, so there is no way I would be taking it to an outside recording session.
I use a Zenbook which is pretty low spec, but can record 8 tracks live via a Zoom R16, that does the job just fine, Reaper is cross platform, and works just as well on both Mac and PC--however Windows 10 is an absolute pain. I hate it, it works ok, but there is a continual threat of things breaking with an update.
Mac's are the same now-I haven't even updated to Catalina, because the plugins haven't all been fixed, and the next OS is already out soon.
I have spent the last 2 days trying to get the 'alternative' OS to work on an older laptop, Ubuntu studio.
Jesus H christ,--it is a nightmare. The tagline is-'A free and open operating system for creative people'.
As I type this, my machine is failing at the fifth attempt to get it working.
First time, it worked fine, but was put on a partition with a dual boot of Win 7, it seemed great--I could even see all my stuff on the windows side, and copied a lot of stuff over. I went to bed feeling good.
Next day, I got an old Mbox 2 recognised, and even managed to record with it--first time, after a lot of failed attempts with other machines.
I copied the session onto the windows partition, and was able to add some plugins-all done with Reaper.
That is when it went horribly wrong, when I tried to go back into Ubuntu, it would not boot, it was like talking to an alien life form.
I have lost count of how many variation of boot sequence I have seen, so last few times I have tried fresh installs, which resulted in the screen resolution being set at 640 x 480, and no way of seeing the bottom of any dialog.
I am trying again, because when it worked it looked pretty good, almost exactly like windows, with more music software than I knew existed.
But now I am stuck, between a rock, a hard place and a very hard place.
Reaper works across all platforms, but now I don't like any of them.
When my current systems die-I think I will have to give up.
It isn't fun anymore, waiting for OS's to do what they should be able to do-operate.
That last attempt failed, so I will try one more time, and then I will be throwing a perfectly good piece of hardware in the bin.
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Windows worked just fine in all versions up to 8, which is when it became stupidly bloated and tried to do everything Apple was doing, Cortana and Bing FFS.
Apples updates have been the same, but the update to Catalina changed the file system and some of their own newer machines broke because of it.
How can we be expected to keep spending money on software which now seems to have a years lifespan, if it works at all?
I just think the situation has got out of hand, and if your advice is to give up, on an attempt to use an alternative, well that is a truly sad state of affairs to me.
I am trying to get Ubuntu studio working, which it was at first, until I suspect the windows partition caused something to be corrupted.
Now a full fresh install of Ubuntu, will not let me see the lower part of the screen-resolution is stuck at 640 x 480, it was ok, now it isn't.
The machine will not work with Windows10, and I am not paying for it anyway, so I guess it will have to go into landfill.
It offers a major update, which is the latest version, then spends about an hour downloading, getting things ready, installing, re-booting and then saying 'something went wrong' and re-installs previous version. Happened to my machine 3 times now, each time was an hour I wasted, each time was an hour I couldn't really spare.
My whole point is, it works, and has mostly worked since 3.1, why does it constantly need to be 'updated'? With Win 10, we can no longer choose to 'freeze' our OS in time-the update HAS to be done.
My current pain in the ass machine has Win 7 installed, which now is removing features from itself because I haven't paid for it.
It originally came with Vista, which was terribly bloated and slowed down the machine, eventually I tried a 'cracked' version of Win 7 that had supposedly been stripped of all bloat, the install fit on a CD, obviously it only exists because the 'anti piracy' stuff hadn't been stripped out, and after a month-just when I had got it all loaded up and working fine- the annoying 'this version of windows isn't licensed ' message pops up.
I bought the machine new, with Vista pre-installed, with no physical copy of the disc, and I was only recently trying to extend the life of it, Win 7 works fine, but now the process of locking me out of it has started-wallpaper is not available, and god knows what else is being messed with--which is the whole reason I am looking at an alternative.
They all do it, the relentless upgrade path, which at some point renders your hardware obsolete, I have a Toshiba Libretto from years back, that is stuck at Win 95, which is still working fine--OK, the battery doesn't hold a charge, but it works fine- and is not capable of forcing me to upgrade, so it is frozen, and proof that there is no need to be continually pushed forward, it is nice to have some choice in the matter.
The hardware is now being deliberately crippled by the software, with about a year or 2 if you are lucky.
My 2009 Macbook pro, with self added SSD and ram, is still working, and my 2007 one actually has a battery that can be replaced easily-there is EVEN a latch to open it. Imagine that, access to the inside of the machine?
If you want a decent specced Macbook now, you have to specify it, and all drives and ram are soldered in place, and you probably have to pay handsomely to get a battery changed-the machine is meant to only last as long as the battery these days.
That all comes at a very high price, and then you are at the mercy of the OS.
I'd be looking for a decent s/hand MacBook and Logic if I were you. I installed a decent SSD and keep my samples etc on an external USB drive and it all works well. For interfaces I have 2 daisy chained old EDIROL FA101s using Firewire powered from the Mac. I have a cheap Behringer 24 channel patchbay going into the 16 ins/out that 2 EDIROLS give you. They're cheap as chips when they come up on eBay. Ive had this set up going nearly every day for years and it just works fine.
I have tried many many many times to get a workable studio running in Linux on various machines over the past 10 years - some built just for music, and all attempts have eventually failed due to unexpected errors or my lack of Linux coding knowledge.
Thing is, if you want to be creatively productive you just need a solution where you can walk in the room , press ON and everything is ready to go.
I feel your pain, but I do think there are cheapish collations that will give you a home studio set up that 20 years ago would have been unthinkable.
I didn't buy any 3rd-party plugins so I've not suffered in the way others have when their plugin vendors decided they wouldn't upgrade them to 64 bit compliance. Apple has been warning about the planned change for years, so I see it as the 3rd party vendors issue, not Apple. They either want to sell to Apple users or they don't.
FWIW, the next version of macOS after Catalina will not be available for my mid-2012 MBP machine. I don't care, but others might.
But, it's a stable platform that meets my needs and I'm sticking with it until/unless that changes.
I've used it to record two albums and an EP without any issues.
Another great reason is that, of the big three OSs, Ubuntu is the only one which doesn't have update issues. You never, ever have the situation where you switch your computer on (or off) and have to wait for half an hour for it to finish updating (unlike Windows), and it's ludicrously rare for an OS update to render even one application unusable, much less lots of them (unlike OS X).
However, if @andy_k can't get the base operating system to work...I suspect there's a more fundamental problem in play.
At one point, I thought I had it cracked, I had Ubuntu studio running fine, with Reaper, and was able to plug and play with an Mbox 2 interface, actually recorded with it first attempt.
I think my problem came from the fact I had it as a dual boot system with my failing Win 7, and the problems started after I attempted to re boot back into Ubuntu, the screen resolution was stuck at a scale that placed menus outside the screen-and my frustrations began.
I followed some scripts to change the resolution in a terminal window, but by now I may have as well been trying to talk Mandarin.
I may have another go, as I do like the idea of having a machine that will do simple basic recording, but otherwise the machine will become landfill.
This situation is all about extending my ability to record and mix, so at this point, I don't think it is viable to buy a second hand MBP that is around 8 years old, when my current machines die-I want to be able to move forward and not be limited by outdated specs.
There are some tricky setup issues involved, but it's pretty easy when you've got a guide. If you do get Ubuntu up and running (I'd suggest starting with the vanilla version of Ubuntu, because Ubuntu Studio doesn't give you anything you can't get from the more supported main version), then I wrote a guide here for getting it up and running with Helix Native:
https://line6.com/support/topic/30662-helix-native-now-with-added-linux/?tab=comments#comment-264152
That gives you everything you need to install the Windows version of Reaper. It's all terminal commands, but that's because doing it via point-and-click would've required me to write pages and pages of instructions, and life's too short.
When it comes to installing multiple operating systems, I never bother with dual-boot. I just remove all the disks except the one I want to install the second operating system on, install it as though it's the only one in the machine, then plug all the other drives back in and switch operating systems on boot by using the BIOS/UEFI boot menu. That way, they can never get in each other's way.
By contrast ubuntu with luks was a massive pile of wank. If it crashed at all during disk access it regularly hosed the boot sector and I needed to recover by manually remounting and recovering the encrypted partition.
So far fedora seems much more stable but Im getting a bit off the point.
I'm not contesting that linux *can* be used for audio. Rather Im saying that in order to get an equicilent experience to windows..and presumably mac you need to invest a lot more effort and have more skill with the base operating.
The "extra effort" was simply half an hour spent following some instructions to get JACK and WineAsio installed; that's it. The audio interface didn't require any drivers or configuration, because it was all part of the base OS. Installing Reaper was no more difficult than it was on Windows. Yes, there was five minutes of research put in to get Helix Native running under WINE, but I've seen people on here putting days of effort into getting their Windows and OS X machines stable for recording.
The only plugins I've come across that I can't use are those requiring iLok. Everything else has worked exactly as it would under Windows, except for being more stable and faster under load.
Your disk access/boot sector problem...jesus, when was that? I've been using various flavours of Linux on many different machines since 2003, and I've literally never encountered anything like that. Sounds more like a hardware problem than anything.
Ubuntu was also a massive PITA getting multi-monitors working with docking / undocking.
For what it's worth, Ubuntu's been brilliant with docking/undocking since about 19.04. At least, that's the only time I've needed to try it, and it's worked without issue for me. In fact, it works too bloody well, because my Lenovo Yoga 2 Pro has an accelerometer, so when I'm carrying it around and accidentally let the angle go too much to the side, it has a habit of flipping the screen on its side.
That said, I'm now using Budgie as a desktop on all my machines, and it's absolutely ace. Lighter than GNOME and KDE, and generally stays out of the way until you need it, and it works with high-DPI screens. Can't ask for more than that.