6 screw vs Twin Pivot Strat Tremolos - This 'Experiment' Makes No Sense To Me

Philly_Q

To be fair to Wudtone, as far as I can remember none of the issues between Andy Preston and this forum were due to claims about his tremolo bridge itself, it's a very good product by all accounts.  There's just some debate about the - easily removable - stainless steel shim they use under the bridge.

(I've no affiliation with Wudtone and I don't own one of their bridges.)

andy_k

Nerine said:

He’s showing the difference between a worn out tremolo and a new aftermarket one. 

The results aren’t exactly unexpected. 

“Check out how well this totally worn out tremolo works!! Now check out how well my new tremolo works.” 

Also the guitar playing in the video is horrid. I don’t know who that is, but it’s nasty. 

The video is a sales pitch and is misleading at best. 

I’ve owned a lot of guitars with various styles of tremolo. None have ever worked as badly as that one in the video. Never. None of them have had issues with tuning stability either. All of them have been rock solid. 

I haven't posted the vid to say his trem is anything, I am not promoting it.
I posted it as a good example of the effects I had myself, with a vintage 6, set up correctly.
If you haven't had these effects, good luck, but a worn out tremolo-proves there is wear doesn't it?
My whole point was to try to explain the wear issues.
It has been an interesting conversation.

jaymenon

I cannot believe how much this topic has got under my skin.  And it didn't help that the owner of Wudtone chipped in with his own vested interests...

So @ICBM and @andy_k ;can we agree on the following?

The original Fender tremolo has its drawbacks - that's why the Floyd Rose was invented.

However:

1. When set up as originally intended (i.e. floating, so you can pitch change slightly above and below the note):
 the bridge does NOT contact the body.

2. When set up flush with the body (i.e. with 5 springs or a tightened spring claw)
the entire undersurface of the bridge plate does contact the body. It is possible to lower the pitch of the notes, but not to raise them.

It follows from 2 that:
When you push down on the tremolo arm, the bridge rises (it does not fall)

indeed it cannot fall, since it is already contacting the body.

Can we agree on these please?

andy_k

jaymenon said:

I cannot believe how much this topic has got under my skin.  And it didn't help that the owner of Wudtone chipped in with his own vested interests...

So @ICBM and @andy_k ;can we agree on the following?

The original Fender tremolo has its drawbacks - that's why the Floyd Rose was invented.

However:

1. When set up as originally intended (i.e. floating, so you can pitch change slightly above and below the note):
 the bridge does NOT contact the body.

2. When set up flush with the body (i.e. with 5 springs or a tightened spring claw)
the entire undersurface of the bridge plate does contact the body. It is possible to lower the pitch of the notes, but not to raise them.

It follows from 2 that:
When you push down on the tremolo arm, the bridge rises (it does not fall)

indeed it cannot fall, since it is already contacting the body.

Can we agree on these please?

Since it is a direct question, I will add that-
1, this is correct, it should not contact the body, but the wudtone video shows that in practice, under heavy use, it does.
2, This is what I describe as a decked setup, which still behaves as 1,in one direction, with screws set up correctly, and does not change the fact that there is friction and wear introduced at the pivot points and screws.
The bridge obviously rises off the body as the pitch falls.
The wudtone video shows that the pivot point can move up and down the screws-which are adjusted to allow range of movement.

I can't explain it any clearer than that, it is an effect I have known for a long while, and the video shows it clearly, his design is a slight refinement as it allows tighter tolerances when tightening the screws, and the machining is more accurate.
The Floyd evolution addresses these problems and eliminates the problems at nut and block, so works better as a full range tremolo, both in floating and decked configuration. Wear still occurs, but is confined to 2 knife edge pivots and is in a much more acceptable and controllable range.
I have contacted Fender to ask them to amend the advice on their setup page, sent the thread for reference and will post their reply, at least to attempt to correct the mis-information.
It has been fun.

clarkydaz

regarding this vid previous posted and people say its correct,

when adjusting your intervals for floating, do you avoid the block banging against the guitar at either extreme?

Do you also tune via the claw screws at the back to bring it into 'balance'? ive never tried that before

Aidanspaghetti

Best item ive seen for decking a trem was the folded up court summons issued to each member of the band cos we were caught by the fuzz at an ungodly hour post gig.