Bass tone ...why can I process myself better than someone else?

PolarityMan

So Ive noticed that I can get a much better bass sound if I track the bass than if Ed does who actually plays bass in our band. I dont think its a technique issue as he is tight and articulate but I cant seem to make his bass sound as good as mine.

They're really similar basses too both Ibanez sound gears just different models. 

One difference might be that I track into my bass chain so maybe I very my playing to suit the chain whereas Ed tracks jsut to the DI but I cant seem to get a chain that I think works as well as it should with his bass.

WiresDreamDisasters

What are you struggling with ultimately? "Better" is often subjective, but if you can nail down the problem areas, it'd be easier to advise.

Maybe his pickups are significantly different enough that your usual approach is wrong for them? A difference in plectrum can really change the way a bass tone sounds as well. Thinner picks in my experience give a scratchier sound on bass. It could also be the DI he's using. If you're plugging into a Helix for your tracking, but he's plugging into a Samson DI or something ... possibly there's a quality issue there.

PolarityMan

I'm going straight into the interface, I think he is going through his pedal board with everything off then into an interface. I know he uses black fangs, same as me but not sure if they're the same thickness...theyre ultex so even the thin ones are pretty rigid though. 

I feel like I cant get the low mids sounding solid on his tracks and although he has plenty of attack also cant get the clank as nice as I can when I'm processing my own playing. 

WiresDreamDisasters

Get him to try sending you a DI just from the interface. Rule the pedals out of the equation. Just coz they're off/bypassed doesn't mean they're not doing anything to the signal.

PolarityMan

Good plan, I do also have some tracks from rehearsal that are DI'd straight in but on those he's playing to the whole band / click and singing at the same time rather than studio tracking conditions so prob not a fair comparison. 

Cirrus

Bass tone has far more of a direct relationship to the way the bass is played that guitars do - the sound coming out a bass guitar already sounds like a bass guitar, it doesn't require the same signal mangling that guitar gets in order to sound right. So the feel of the player - fingers or pick, how hard or soft you play, where you strike the string, how evenly you play across different notes etc - has an immediate effect on the sound.

So, if one player is monitoring their performance in a way that means they can't judge how hard to play to fit the tone in the mix, and another player even *playing the same instrument* is monitoring through a chain that places the bass in the proper context for the track, I'd absolutely expect the latter to have a better tone - because on some level, performance *is* tone - the player is trying to make a sound that works, and monitoring determines how hard that is for them.

That said, some players just never build that feedback loop of being able to modulate their playing by actually listening to the sound they're making, some basses just sound bad, some DIs are rubbish... I'm not discounting those possibilities or discrediting the importance of the gear used.

Stratavarious

I always DI the bass and and then deal with everything later.. a chain of pedals and buffers might be a factor.  Your ear and playing may be tuned to your chain though and you can adapt.

I often end up redoing the bass myself in our band for the opposite reason.  The ampeg preamp he uses colours and adds noise I can’t remove.  Playing live and recording are different things and need different temperaments and listening...  and yep, pick/finger technique can make a huge different to the punch and clarity of the notes and esp. where you pick.   

I am doing some kids TV show music at the moment (mainly with a sweet sounding old Fender Jazz bass) and using a pick to get the full piano like breath of harmonics to work with.  The highs and high mids of the notes get lost if i go finger style.  But I do need to put on some new strings too.  Dead strings are hard to make sound good.  I sometimes boil my strings for a few mins in soapy water before a session rather than pay another £30 -£40.. you can do that for years. 

Stuckfast

I had been plugging my bass into the high-impedance input on an audio interface and it never sounded all that good. The other day I tried using it through a Radial DI box and it was a million times better -- I was surprised at how different it was.

Danny1969

Active basses are generally fine straight into line level. I normally track straight into that then use Sansamp for some colour. A passive bass will need a DI box though unless you like a dullish sound

Branshen

Maybe Ed should play guitar instead

WiresDreamDisasters

Stuckfast said:

I had been plugging my bass into the high-impedance input on an audio interface and it never sounded all that good. The other day I tried using it through a Radial DI box and it was a million times better -- I was surprised at how different it was.

Which bass and interface was that guv?

PolarityMan

Branshen said:

Maybe Ed should play guitar instead

He did previously

poopot

Last night bass monkey came over... I stuck a condenser and an sm57 in front and took a DI out from the amp and also a DI from the pedalboard...

4 tracks to choose from... two from the markbass and two that I can reamp through the big fuckofff ampeg stack I’m currently leaning against!!!!

do that!...

PolarityMan

Ive also never really been happy with mic'ing bass cabs although its probably the aspect of engineering I've experimented least with jsut because DI with normal split highs and lows sounds so good with so little effort. In this band we've always had imho underpowered bass amps too. 

Stuckfast

WiresDreamDisasters said: Which bass and interface was that guv?

It's a knackered old Kay thru-neck job from the 80s. Tried it through numerous 'high-impedance' inputs and always struggled to get a good sound, but the Radial seemed much better for some reason. I guess because it has a transformer.

Nerine

Cirrus said:

Bass tone has far more of a direct relationship to the way the bass is played that guitars do - the sound coming out a bass guitar already sounds like a bass guitar, it doesn't require the same signal mangling that guitar gets in order to sound right. So the feel of the player - fingers or pick, how hard or soft you play, where you strike the string, how evenly you play across different notes etc - has an immediate effect on the sound.

So, if one player is monitoring their performance in a way that means they can't judge how hard to play to fit the tone in the mix, and another player even *playing the same instrument* is monitoring through a chain that places the bass in the proper context for the track, I'd absolutely expect the latter to have a better tone - because on some level, performance *is* tone - the player is trying to make a sound that works, and monitoring determines how hard that is for them.

That said, some players just never build that feedback loop of being able to modulate their playing by actually listening to the sound they're making, some basses just sound bad, some DIs are rubbish... I'm not discounting those possibilities or discrediting the importance of the gear used.

100% this. 

Also where the notes are played on the fretboard. 

Consistency is key on bass. 

Recording bass well is an art unto itself.

when I say recording, I mean the performance and playing. Not the gear or signal chain. 

That said, I’ve found better basses have a more consistent low end around the neck. Some have like, loads and loads in the space of a handful of frets on maybe two strings, but everything else is weedy and thin. Technique can help with that, too, though.