Acoustic Preamp ? Or Preamp Pedal ? Or....

Wazmeister

Thanks for all the advice on my Guild DS240 thread - much appreciated.

Now, Im going to try the K&K Pure Mini... nice price, and not too hard to fit.

So, my next question (no.2 in the series...) is which preamp to use ?
Im happy to invest, as it looks like some church acoustic journeys lie ahead.

Do I buy...

1.) A Preamp - something like the K&K Sound Pure Preamp, the new Radial Engineering Pre/Pro or whatever

2.) A Preamp Pedal - e.g.) Boss AD10 or Fishman ToneDEQ Preamp EQ

3.) A Preamp like JHS Clover (loved this electrically) and then build my own pedal board.

4.) An acoustic amp - then out to the PA.

No.3 naturally appeals as an excuse to build another board and use my existing Boss RC500, Neunaber Immerse MKII, a good delay etc.

What sayest thou wise people ?

Thanks in advance.

Caffeine_Vampire

Rane AP13

Cirrus

Really the choice just comes down to what form factor makes sense for the way you'll use it.

I went with a Palmer Pocket Amp Acoustic because I was already taking a looper pedal to open mics - so it made sense to put the preamp on the board along with a tuner, power them both off the same power supply, and have the handy mute footswitch ready for between songs.

And I think the Palmer does the job nicely, though I'm sure there's stuff out there that's just as good or better.

TheMadMick

We play in church which has a very good acoustic. Most of us just plug into a small PA amp with no effects. The church is big enough to provide the reverb and, if folks are singing (inferred in your question), then I'd suggest minimal effects are the best and cheapest way to go.

artiebear

I would go for a secondhand AER Compact 60. You gain the option of A) switching for passive/active levels, depending on your pick up B being able to hear yourself in the context of other players and potentially in the absence of decent monitoring ( I know that church can mean a full PA/foldback mix or reliance on crazy acoustic artefacts, all dependant upon the form of worship.and C) a cracking little amp with reverb and chorus for jazzy noodling, even with an electric..

In addition it can be used as a standalone "acoustic" boost or would XLR out into a desk.

The K&K pick ups are great.

TheBigDipper

I've got two guitars with K&K Pure Mini pups installed. I ended up with a second-hand K&K Pure XLR Preamp and both guitars sound really good with it, and better than anything else I'd tried, so I stopped looking. 

I use it as a preamp into everything - my audio interface, the mixing desk at open mics and it always makes a positive difference to the quality of the sound. Runs off a PP3 battery and also takes phantom power.

I've also got a FlyRig Acoustic - but the K&K preamp sounds better. I used to have a Fishman Loudbox Pro combo which I sold on. If I ever start playing live again and need my own amplification at the venue I'd no longer go down the acoustic guitar amp route for guitar and vocals personally. A small array system would sound and work better for me, I think, and be expandable. For a guitar in a church, I think the Loudbox would have been fine at its price point. I've also heard some lovely tones from performers playing through AER Compact 60s but never played through one myself. 

Kristo

When I had K & K equipped acoustics the best thing I did was buy an Orchid Electronics Muting DI. It’s a perfect match for the K & K, and the sound was EQ’d at the desk. They are about £60 and ace. Plus when you mute to tune up you don’t get that horrible pop you can sometimes have! 

smigeon

Kristo said:

When I had K & K equipped acoustics the best thing I did was buy an Orchid Electronics Muting DI. It’s a perfect match for the K & K, and the sound was EQ’d at the desk. They are about £60 and ace. Plus when you mute to tune up you don’t get that horrible pop you can sometimes have! 

Yeah - I have the exact same setup. Sounds great and so much simpler than a separate preamp - the Orchid feeds a nice impedance-matched signal into the desk from the K&K Pure Mini, and the desk does the rest.

Snags

Can't comment on the pre-amp, as my acoustics have always add on-board pre-amps fitted.

Regarding the church setting, however (and accepting you'll know your church better than me!) my experience of acoustic guitar in church, in a band setting, is that really you don't need much more than a bit of EQ, possibly some reverb and maybe, just maybe, the odd bit of flange or delay from time to time (or, of course, a monster shimmer reverb ). There's thus not a huge amount of scope for building a board.

Over the years for acoustic I've gone straight to desk via DI, via a Zoom A2 (briefly, too much faff), via an HX FX which worked well but was way OTT, and most recently via a Fishman Loudbox mini acting as DI and personal monitor, but letting me do a little extra EQ/reverb before it gets to the desk.

The degree to which you'll want to fiddle pre-desk is obviously going to depend on who runs your desk. At the place I used to play regularly that was a very mixed ability group, so I'd often set my own channel up with as much control at the guitar end as possible, and tell them not to flipping well touch anything beyond the slider, on pain of some Old Testament re-enactment.

Wazmeister

Snags said:

Can't comment on the pre-amp, as my acoustics have always add on-board pre-amps fitted.

Regarding the church setting, however (and accepting you'll know your church better than me!) my experience of acoustic guitar in church, in a band setting, is that really you don't need much more than a bit of EQ, possibly some reverb and maybe, just maybe, the odd bit of flange or delay from time to time (or, of course, a monster shimmer reverb ). There's thus not a huge amount of scope for building a board.

Over the years for acoustic I've gone straight to desk via DI, via a Zoom A2 (briefly, too much faff), via an HX FX which worked well but was way OTT, and most recently via a Fishman Loudbox mini acting as DI and personal monitor, but letting me do a little extra EQ/reverb before it gets to the desk.

The degree to which you'll want to fiddle pre-desk is obviously going to depend on who runs your desk. At the place I used to play regularly that was a very mixed ability group, so I'd often set my own channel up with as much control at the guitar end as possible, and tell them not to flipping well touch anything beyond the slider, on pain of some Old Testament re-enactment.

Good advice, amongst many on here - thanks all !

I've fitted a K&K Pure Mini today. A steep learning curve and it now works wonderfully, Im pleased to say.

Mind you, I did use my full quota of all seven swearwords (and a few new Russian ones...) during the installation process. But I got there in the end, and Im actually really surprised at the sound.

A 'B' stock Fishman Mini Loudbox Charge arrived today from Andertons; really good price, and it sounds really good. Even worked well with my Tele into it.

Happy days

Cirrus

Wazmeister said:
Good advice, amongst many on here - thanks all !

I've fitted a K&K Pure Mini today. A steep learning curve and it now works wonderfully, Im pleased to say.

   Awesome, really happy you like it!

Tadragh1

I'm a bit too late to add much value here, but I'd definitely go with a proper, separate preamp. Headway stuff is nice and convenient for the British people. I've myself exchanged my Headway preamp for LR Baggs Venue recently and it's a top-class unit. Acoustic amps make less and less sense to me these days, when a relatively cheap digital mixer and an active speaker (or 2) can get you much further, leaving some extra room for a vocal mic and a few other things. Believe my, I've tried, and I'm picky about my amplified tone. I am not selling my Acoustic Image amp yet, though