Buying Fender from Thomann?

Blackbooks

Peach Guitars have Player Strats in stock for £519...buying from them at that price is a no brainer if they have the colour you want. 

thebreeze

prowla said:

The difference is that the VAT comes to the UK taxman, rather than the other country's, which ain't a bad thing. However, UK VAT is 20% vs Germany's 19%.

There is still 2% import duty on items which aren't manufactured in the EU, though and the courier will charge you a £12 (or so) admin fee for paying it on your behalf.

So, as it stands an item listed at £1000 will cost you an extra £42:

• £10 more in VAT +
  
• £20 import duty+
• £12 admin fees.

I'd expect Thomann to be sorting out paying UK VAT and import duty at point of sale fairly soon, thereby removing the courier's admin fee.

Lovely attempt to paint over what is clearly (you just have to read what people are saying) a complete pain in the arse for all involved.  What is also clear is that the choices and the market in new and second hand guitars is now greatly diminished - I’m looking to buy myself and that’s the reality.  Just a microcosm of things at large I suggest.  

prowla

thebreeze said:

prowla said:

The difference is that the VAT comes to the UK taxman, rather than the other country's, which ain't a bad thing. However, UK VAT is 20% vs Germany's 19%.

There is still 2% import duty on items which aren't manufactured in the EU, though and the courier will charge you a £12 (or so) admin fee for paying it on your behalf.

So, as it stands an item listed at £1000 will cost you an extra £42:

• £10 more in VAT +
  
• £20 import duty+
• £12 admin fees.

I'd expect Thomann to be sorting out paying UK VAT and import duty at point of sale fairly soon, thereby removing the courier's admin fee.

Lovely attempt to paint over what is clearly (you just have to read what people are saying) a complete pain in the arse for all involved.  What is also clear is that the choices and the market in new and second hand guitars is now greatly diminished - I’m looking to buy myself and that’s the reality.  Just a microcosm of things at large I suggest.  

No worries - just the facts vs sensationalism. 

thebreeze

prowla said:

thebreeze said:

prowla said:

The difference is that the VAT comes to the UK taxman, rather than the other country's, which ain't a bad thing. However, UK VAT is 20% vs Germany's 19%.

There is still 2% import duty on items which aren't manufactured in the EU, though and the courier will charge you a £12 (or so) admin fee for paying it on your behalf.

So, as it stands an item listed at £1000 will cost you an extra £42:

• £10 more in VAT +
  
• £20 import duty+
• £12 admin fees.

I'd expect Thomann to be sorting out paying UK VAT and import duty at point of sale fairly soon, thereby removing the courier's admin fee.

Lovely attempt to paint over what is clearly (you just have to read what people are saying) a complete pain in the arse for all involved.  What is also clear is that the choices and the market in new and second hand guitars is now greatly diminished - I’m looking to buy myself and that’s the reality.  Just a microcosm of things at large I suggest.  

No worries - just the facts vs sensationalism. 

Please just have a think about what "the facts"/reality actually are.  Your "facts" are half the picture at best - you completely ignore the fact that the collection of tax was reciprocal for all governments and now that the market has diminished all governments will be collecting less tax, ours included (for guitars maybe more so) - "which ain't a good thing".  (We'll ignore that this government will use swathes of tax they get to cover up their incompetence, e.g. compensating fishermen for shafting and lying to them etc).

There's a reality here, born out by people's experience (already) and what they're saying.  To dismiss it as sensationalism is just being in denial, aloof and a tad insulting.

I'm not going to comment any more, Brexit has been utterly divisive and retrograde, here and elsewhere.  This was a post from someone who wanted to think about buying a guitar from Europe.  He was getting advice about the mechanics, considerations and reality of doing that now that we're not in the EU anymore.  Your post didn't really seem to be aimed at that but an attempt to make a political point.

Freebird

Neil said:

Wazmeister said:

Thomann are superb, and they have a great returns policy so you can buy in confidence...

Howvever, the guys are right about the VAT sadly thanks to the Brainless Brexit Bunch...

Possibly worth pointing out that you always paid VAT before, but to Germany instead of to UK now. 

Wasn't that VAT forwarded to the UK? Bax are including the VAT in their prices, and I believe they are UK VAT registered? I've been trying to find this stuff out, but it's not a simple task!

77ric

I think bax have a U.K. office/warehouse (might not be bax) therefore will be VAT registered in the U.K. 

prowla

thebreeze said:

prowla said:

thebreeze said:

prowla said:

The difference is that the VAT comes to the UK taxman, rather than the other country's, which ain't a bad thing. However, UK VAT is 20% vs Germany's 19%.

There is still 2% import duty on items which aren't manufactured in the EU, though and the courier will charge you a £12 (or so) admin fee for paying it on your behalf.

So, as it stands an item listed at £1000 will cost you an extra £42:

• £10 more in VAT +
  
• £20 import duty+
• £12 admin fees.

I'd expect Thomann to be sorting out paying UK VAT and import duty at point of sale fairly soon, thereby removing the courier's admin fee.

Lovely attempt to paint over what is clearly (you just have to read what people are saying) a complete pain in the arse for all involved.  What is also clear is that the choices and the market in new and second hand guitars is now greatly diminished - I’m looking to buy myself and that’s the reality.  Just a microcosm of things at large I suggest.  

No worries - just the facts vs sensationalism. 

Please just have a think about what "the facts"/reality actually are.  Your "facts" are half the picture at best - you completely ignore the fact that the collection of tax was reciprocal for all governments and now that the market has diminished all governments will be collecting less tax, ours included (for guitars maybe more so) - "which ain't a good thing".  (We'll ignore that this government will use swathes of tax they get to cover up their incompetence, e.g. compensating fishermen for shafting and lying to them etc).

There's a reality here, born out by people's experience (already) and what they're saying.  To dismiss it as sensationalism is just being in denial, aloof and a tad insulting.

I'm not going to comment any more, Brexit has been utterly divisive and retrograde, here and elsewhere.  This was a post from someone who wanted to think about buying a guitar from Europe.  He was getting advice about the mechanics, considerations and reality of doing that now that we're not in the EU anymore.  Your post didn't really seem to be aimed at that but an attempt to make a political point.

Actually, I was stating facts regarding the tax and mechanics of buying from the EU. 

The fact is that you can buy from the EU and a £1000 purchase of a luxury item will cost you £42 more. It’s not the end of the world, is it?

But if you want to turn it into another brexit whingeathon, then fill your boots!

Freebird

77ric said:

I think bax have a U.K. office/warehouse (might not be bax) therefore will be VAT registered in the U.K. 

They have a correspondence address in the UK. It needs further research, as I have read that some EU companies are complaing about having to be UK VAT registered to do business. Are there any accountants on here that deal with this sort of thing?

Freebird

prowla said:

thebreeze said:

prowla said:

thebreeze said:

prowla said:

The difference is that the VAT comes to the UK taxman, rather than the other country's, which ain't a bad thing. However, UK VAT is 20% vs Germany's 19%.

There is still 2% import duty on items which aren't manufactured in the EU, though and the courier will charge you a £12 (or so) admin fee for paying it on your behalf.

So, as it stands an item listed at £1000 will cost you an extra £42:

• £10 more in VAT +
  
• £20 import duty+
• £12 admin fees.

I'd expect Thomann to be sorting out paying UK VAT and import duty at point of sale fairly soon, thereby removing the courier's admin fee.

Lovely attempt to paint over what is clearly (you just have to read what people are saying) a complete pain in the arse for all involved.  What is also clear is that the choices and the market in new and second hand guitars is now greatly diminished - I’m looking to buy myself and that’s the reality.  Just a microcosm of things at large I suggest.  

No worries - just the facts vs sensationalism. 

Please just have a think about what "the facts"/reality actually are.  Your "facts" are half the picture at best - you completely ignore the fact that the collection of tax was reciprocal for all governments and now that the market has diminished all governments will be collecting less tax, ours included (for guitars maybe more so) - "which ain't a good thing".  (We'll ignore that this government will use swathes of tax they get to cover up their incompetence, e.g. compensating fishermen for shafting and lying to them etc).

There's a reality here, born out by people's experience (already) and what they're saying.  To dismiss it as sensationalism is just being in denial, aloof and a tad insulting.

I'm not going to comment any more, Brexit has been utterly divisive and retrograde, here and elsewhere.  This was a post from someone who wanted to think about buying a guitar from Europe.  He was getting advice about the mechanics, considerations and reality of doing that now that we're not in the EU anymore.  Your post didn't really seem to be aimed at that but an attempt to make a political point.

Actually, I was stating facts regarding the tax and mechanics of buying from the EU. 

The fact is that you can buy from the EU and a £1000 purchase of a luxury item will cost you £42 more. It’s not the end of the world, is it?

But if you want to turn it into another brexit whingeathon, then fill your boots!

I blame Edward Heath for getting us into this mess in the first place!

prowla

They also wanted to ban the Great British Sausage!

thebreeze

prowla said:

thebreeze said:

prowla said:

thebreeze said:

prowla said:

The difference is that the VAT comes to the UK taxman, rather than the other country's, which ain't a bad thing. However, UK VAT is 20% vs Germany's 19%.

There is still 2% import duty on items which aren't manufactured in the EU, though and the courier will charge you a £12 (or so) admin fee for paying it on your behalf.

So, as it stands an item listed at £1000 will cost you an extra £42:

• £10 more in VAT +
  
• £20 import duty+
• £12 admin fees.

I'd expect Thomann to be sorting out paying UK VAT and import duty at point of sale fairly soon, thereby removing the courier's admin fee.

Lovely attempt to paint over what is clearly (you just have to read what people are saying) a complete pain in the arse for all involved.  What is also clear is that the choices and the market in new and second hand guitars is now greatly diminished - I’m looking to buy myself and that’s the reality.  Just a microcosm of things at large I suggest.  

No worries - just the facts vs sensationalism. 

Please just have a think about what "the facts"/reality actually are.  Your "facts" are half the picture at best - you completely ignore the fact that the collection of tax was reciprocal for all governments and now that the market has diminished all governments will be collecting less tax, ours included (for guitars maybe more so) - "which ain't a good thing".  (We'll ignore that this government will use swathes of tax they get to cover up their incompetence, e.g. compensating fishermen for shafting and lying to them etc).

There's a reality here, born out by people's experience (already) and what they're saying.  To dismiss it as sensationalism is just being in denial, aloof and a tad insulting.

I'm not going to comment any more, Brexit has been utterly divisive and retrograde, here and elsewhere.  This was a post from someone who wanted to think about buying a guitar from Europe.  He was getting advice about the mechanics, considerations and reality of doing that now that we're not in the EU anymore.  Your post didn't really seem to be aimed at that but an attempt to make a political point.

Actually, I was stating facts regarding the tax and mechanics of buying from the EU. 

The fact is that you can buy from the EU and a £1000 purchase of a luxury item will cost you £42 more. It’s not the end of the world, is it?

But if you want to turn it into another brexit whingeathon, then fill your boots!

As you couldn't resist the sneery "whingeathon" insult, I'll add this....£42 worse off, not the end of the world? (but convenient to ignore all the waiting, red tape, hassle etc) - individuals can decide that for themselves.  This particular person has decided it's not worth it so he won't buying his guitar from Thomann.  Multiply that (BOTH ways) over thousands of transactions.  You can choose to be dismissive and think it's of little consequence, but you're in denial.

Freebird

prowla said:

They also wanted to ban the Great British Sausage!

 Bloody fascists!

prowla

Freebird said:

77ric said:

I think bax have a U.K. office/warehouse (might not be bax) therefore will be VAT registered in the U.K. 

They have a correspondence address in the UK. It needs further research, as I have read that some EU companies are complaing about having to be UK VAT registered to do business. Are there any accountants on here that deal with this sort of thing?

Well, if you are a UK registered business and have a turnover of (something like) £60k, you have to be VAT registered, so that would presumably apply to Bax's operation.

For smaller companies who want to handle UK VAT at source, there will be VAT registration required and admin tasks to perform; effectively, they are setting themself up as a middle-man to collect the VAT on behalf of the UK government.

The burden of operating a VAT registered business is not huge and there are thousands of small companies who do it.

However, if a supplier in a given country has to do it for each of their target markets, then those "not huge"s will add up to something significant; in that case they will have to make a call on the value of offering that service to their customers.

Whitecat

prowla said:

Freebird said:

77ric said:

I think bax have a U.K. office/warehouse (might not be bax) therefore will be VAT registered in the U.K. 

They have a correspondence address in the UK. It needs further research, as I have read that some EU companies are complaing about having to be UK VAT registered to do business. Are there any accountants on here that deal with this sort of thing?

Well, if you are a UK registered business and have a turnover of (something like) £60k, you have to be VAT registered, so that would presumably apply to Bax's operation.

For smaller companies who want to handle UK VAT at source, there will be VAT registration required and admin tasks to perform; effectively, they are setting themself up as a middle-man to collect the VAT on behalf of the UK government.

The burden of operating a VAT registered business is not huge and there are thousands of small companies who do it.

However, if a supplier in a given country has to do it for each of their target markets, then those "not huge"s will add up to something significant; in that case they will have to make a call on the value of offering that service to their customers.

Indeed - and there is no minimum threshold anymore for foreign firms. They have to collect VAT no matter what. I would like to hear still how HMRC intend to enforce this though!

Bobsher

Have just ordered amp from Thomann. Ex vat price was £88 plus £8 shipping. As this was under the £135 vat and duty limit the vat was added to the invoice for final payment to Thomann. At a total cost of £113.60 this was well below the best UK price of £129 so very happy. Just hope the delivery is ok. Hence if the price quoted by Thomann is below £135 it’s business as usual

Roland

@Bobsher’s thread merged into this one

Freebird

Bobsher said:

Have just ordered amp from Thomann. Ex vat price was £88 plus £8 shipping. As this was under the £135 vat and duty limit the vat was added to the invoice for final payment to Thomann. At a total cost of £113.60 this was well below the best UK price of £129 so very happy. Just hope the delivery is ok. Hence if the price quoted by Thomann is below £135 it’s business as usual

I'm looking at a product that has a lowest UK price of £379, and Bax are offering it for under £300 including VAT & Shipping.

77ric

Bobsher said:

Have just ordered amp from Thomann. Ex vat price was £88 plus £8 shipping. As this was under the £135 vat and duty limit the vat was added to the invoice for final payment to Thomann. At a total cost of £113.60 this was well below the best UK price of £129 so very happy. Just hope the delivery is ok. Hence if the price quoted by Thomann is below £135 it’s business as usual

Not quite as shipping is taking longer than usual given the troubles at the ports, but in time I would imagine that those will become closer to normal delivery times. 

prowla

I have to say I've wanted to order a replacement bass nut from Warwick or Thomann and the cost of shipping has been a deal-breaker.

I've just looked now and it seems to be more reasonable, but still not free.

mbe

I wonder if things get complicated when an item has to be returned damaged/faulty or plain unsatisfactory. Presumably Thomann would honour the spirit of the distance selling regs but technically one would be exporting and reimporting in the case of an exchange.