PRS - Floyd Rose

M1ck

Modmins, apologies if this is in the wrong place, feel free to point out my error.
I have a PRS Torero, which, having spent some time setting it up, I’m starting to like - a lot! So I’m thinking along the lines of keeping it and upgrading some bits and pieces. Starting with the Floyd Rose, I don’t know if it’s an original FR or an under license FR, I have looked around but can’t find any info that categorically confirms which it is. If it’s an original then I may just replace the block with one that has a greater mass, if it’s an under license one is it worth replacing with a genuine FR? and do they all have the same post spacing? I know the nuts differ but that’s less if an issue and easier to sort.
im also thinking of new machine heads and some ‘meatier’ pickups at some point but one thing at a time.
I know the ad indicates it’s an original FR but some of the articles I’ve read lead me to question it.

If it helps it this one https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/195945/no-longer-fs-prs-torero#latest
Thanks in advance for any advice.

ThePrettyDamned

I believe its a floyd rose 1000. These are oem Floyds that are about identical to the German made ones, but made in the far East. They claim the same standard of hardening, but user reports are mixed on that.

To be honest, sometimes user reports are more to do with "I spent more so it's better" (see: all gear in every hobby) so I'd say that, unless your unit is defective or lacking in some way, it's perfectly fine. 

ICBM

Nice guitar...

A 1000 Series is a genuine, not licenced, Floyd but is not the same as an original, if that makes sense. They’re made in Korea, and I’m not totally sure which parts are compatible with the originals.

I would ask Jonathan @FelineGuitars about which upgrade parts will fit - he has a range of replacement blocks.

But more importantly, from looking at the photos - are you aware that the bridge saddles have been set for left-handed stringing? That will cause major intonation and apparent ‘tuning’ issues. The positions of all the saddles, and the holes in which the black Allen bolts that hold them down are in, need to be reversed - they're a mirror image of where they should be.

And whatever you do with the bridge and nut, don’t bother changing the machineheads - they’re irrelevant on a guitar with a locking nut. The stock ones are fine anyway.

ThePrettyDamned

I just saw the picture and your saddles look all wrong... I can't imagine it intonate well.

skullfunkerry

If it’s a 1000 series then I wouldn’t bother upgrading it tbh. I have FR Specials in two of my guitars, and although I’ve read a lot of negative comments about them, both of mine work perfectly.

The Charvel Pro Mod range comes with FR 1000 series as standard, it’s definitely not a bad trem. If yours is staying in tune, then apart from maybe fitting a bigger block I wouldn’t bother with any other changes - I don’t think you’ll notice any difference fitting an OFR

M1ck

Thanks for the advice, I have very little technical experience with guitars and don't know what the saddles are supposed to look like but I did notice after taking those photos that at least one of them had slipped, (I'd had it apart to clean it!) its since been sorted but I don't like over tightening things especially those that are costly to repair/replace! I have checked the intonation this morning as the replies made me question it, and, according to google and my tuner all is well, and it seems to stay in tune reasonably well.
 The note about the FR being Korean made along with online reviews is what spurred the question in the first place but from your replies it seems my concern was unfounded. I believe it to be a 1000 series FR but as I bought the guitar used with an unknown history wasn't sure about wear to the the posts etc. thats why I was considering replacing it with an upgrade, but it doesn't seem to be showing any of this issues listed above.
So it looks like I'll be replacing the block the next time I restring it, happy days, more money to spend on pups then.

Stevepage

A cheaper option would be to replace it with a Schaller  lockmeister. Exactly the same dimensions, made by the same company that makes the German floyd roses but about £100 or so cheaper.

ICBM

M1ck said:

I have checked the intonation this morning as the replies made me question it, and, according to google and my tuner all is well, and it seems to stay in tune reasonably well.

Not sure what Google has to do with it, but I would think about a new tuner first . A correctly set-up Floyd doesn't play and stay in tune fairly well... it plays and stays in tune *perfectly*.

There is absolutely no way it will intonate correctly with the saddles set like in your pic, or anywhere close. They're literally all in the wrong positions, with the possible exception of the A and B.

It should look like this, on a right-handed guitar - 



(With very light strings, the saddle bolts for the A and G might be in the front holes.)

The saddle bolts do need to be done up fairly tight too - the saddles must not slip.

ThePrettyDamned

Agreed on above - after fitting strings and stretching them in (which I don't think it's stretching the string, but seating it tight in the bridge and around the tuner post), once locked it should not go out of tune at all in use - unless there is a fair temperature fluctuation, which can be addressed with the fine tuners.

If yours is not returning 100 percent perfect, it might be worth taking to a local tech when lockdown is over. 

ICBM

ThePrettyDamned said:

Agreed on above - after fitting strings and stretching them in (which I don't think it's stretching the string, but seating it tight in the bridge and around the tuner post), once locked it should not go out of tune at all in use - unless there is a fair temperature fluctuation, which can be addressed with the fine tuners.

If yours is not returning 100 percent perfect, it might be worth taking to a local tech when lockdown is over. 

I would definitely not replace any parts before it's set up right, anyway - you may very well find there's no need at all.

A properly set-up Floyd is actually the most tuning-stable of *any* bridge system, even better than a hardtail.

M1ck

Thanks again for the responses.
I’ve seen the image above and have readjusted the bolts and positioned the saddles similarly, but.... top E has just gone ping, so that’s playtime over for today. 

The Google reference was so I made the adjustments the right way and knew what I was looking for, my little tuner and amp tuner are telling me the same thing, so that tells me they’re either both right or both wrong!, but I’m more than happy to go with the consensus here as my tech ability is very limited, so when I get some new strings I’ll set it up as described above and see if that sorts it, I’ll also check my tuners against another one.
Just a point though when I say tuning is ‘fairly stable’ once it’s done it only needs occasional minor adjustment on the fine tuners to keep it there between string changes.
As far as local techs are concerned - the jury is out on that one, I’ve heard some horror stories about some of them that are local to me, I know there will be good ones among them but it’s finding them. I need to learn how to do it myself at some point and this is part of the learning for me.

ICBM

M1ck said:

I need to learn how do do it myself at some point and this is part of the learning for me.

That's definitely the right approach. Although a bit fiddly, there's nothing really 'difficult' about setting up a Floyd if you're willing to learn.

FelineGuitars

Here is me swapping a block over for one of the FatCat steel Floyd blocks we do.

https://felineguitars.com/products/fatcat-guitar-components-fat-steel-block-for-floyd-rose-42mm?_pos=3&_sid=35d1953d4&_ss=r

Funkfingers

The Korean-made genuine Floyd Rose Special/1000 vibratos employ cast zinc for some parts where a German-made one is steel.

In simple, practical terms, the budget Floyds are prone to wear much sooner than the expensive ones. The critical areas are the knife edge pivoting surfaces on the baseplate and the notches in the pivot posts. This is the usual cause of tuning instability.

Somebody local to me was driven nuts by the FRS on his Charvel San Dimas. He ignored advise to either upgrade the vibrato or block it off. He eventually sold the guitar cheaply and has since purchased a mid-price Jackson. 

Meanwhile, the mk1 Edge vibrato on my 1986 Ibanez RG410 still returns to pitch perfectly. Critically, the Edge has hardened steel knife edges set in its mostly zinc casting.

On any electric guitar with a correctly functioning FR string clamp, changing the machineheads is futile.

For some users, the EMG-81/-85 pair is the epitome of Rock/Metal/Shred pickups. Within their range, the only "meatier" ones are the signature models. (Some like to use the -85 in the bridge position and the -81 in the neck.)

If your guitar has the three-pin Solderless™ wiring format, it will be easy to change just the pickups, leaving the controls intact. That could mean Duncan Blackouts. Fishman Fluence pickups use the three-pin connector but, to exploit their full range of sounds, it would be necessary to add mode switches.

M1ck

Thanks for the replies and advice.
Apart from tuning issues/instability how can I tell if my FR is excessively worn? I hadn’t thought about reversing the pick up installation! Though it may be if I can get the FR sorted all the other ‘perceived’ issues may resolved.

ICBM

M1ck said:

Apart from tuning issues/instability how can I tell if my FR is excessively worn?

Take the bridge off and have a look at the fronts of the knife edges - you can't see them in place unfortunately.

John_A

ICBM said:

M1ck said:

Apart from tuning issues/instability how can I tell if my FR is excessively worn?

Take the bridge off and have a look at the fronts of the knife edges - you can't see them in place unfortunately.

And slacken the strings right off first, don’t just try to screw the posts out

ICBM

John_A said:

And slacken the strings right off first, don’t just try to screw the posts out

Oops... yes, I should have said that . In fact, take both the strings *and* springs off, then the bridge just lifts out.

Don't adjust the posts with the strings at full tension at all - that's the easiest way to wear the knife edges.

John_A

ICBM said:

John_A said:

And slacken the strings right off first, don’t just try to screw the posts out

Oops... yes, I should have said that . In fact, take both the strings *and* springs off, then the bridge just lifts out.

Don't adjust the posts with the strings at full tension at all - that's the easiest way to wear the knife edges.

Yes, that’s the best approach, just means you need a new set of strings which in never really a bad thing

ICBM

You can actually remove a Floyd without taking the strings off or even detuning them . Hold the bridge back with the arm and take the springs off! I've done it many times to work on the electrics. But probably not recommended for those of a nervous nature... you're relying on the locking nut bolts to take the full string tension for an extended time.

skullfunkerry

ICBM said:

You can actually remove a Floyd without taking the strings off or even detuning them . Hold the bridge back with the arm and take the springs off! I've done it many times to work on the electrics. But probably not recommended for those of a nervous nature... you're relying on the locking nut bolts to take the full string tension for an extended time.

I've done this a few times with my Jackson. I didn't think of this until after I'd done it, but presumably you could slacken off the tuners, then there'd be no stress on the nut at all?