Frankenpickup

DartmoorHedgehog

I'm planning on building a solid-body mandolin (will be another thread when it gets going) so needed a pickup.  I had a dead lipstick pickup in my box of bits so seemed like a good idea to have a go at winding my own using the scavenged parts and make it a bit narrower while I was at it.

Cutting the bobbin and magnet down a bit was easy.


I'd never wound a pickup coil before, so bought a 100g roll of 0.056mm wire so I had enough to have a few failed attempts.  Built a winding machine out of Lego, with an old pedometer wired up as a counter.  Looked a bit Frankenstein but actually worked really well.


First attempt was going really well - too well in fact, and the wire snagged and snapped at just under 3000 turns.  Had to cut it all off and try again (but I was expecting a few failed runs).  Next few runs all snapped at a couple of hundred winds.  Then on about the 5th attempt I managed to wind a full bobbin, about 5000 winds.


Output wires soldered on, potted in wax and wrapped in tape it now looked like this.


I was feeling pretty happy with it at this point.  Then a potential disaster while pushing the coil back into the tube - the wires snagged on the head of the mounting screw and broke both the little tails from the coil.  Thought I was going to have to start again, but luckily managed to peel the tape off carefully and there was enough wire still poking out of the coil that I could resolder it and tape it up again.  Then, lesson learnt, pushed it very carefully back into the tube - this time remaining intact.


Finished it off this morning by shortening the other half of the tube and the base plate and screwing it back together.  It looks quite respectable (the extra joint in the tube is more obvious in the picture, but when it's behind strings it's not really that noticeable), and a quick test soldered to a temporary jack socket and held in front of the strings of a guitar had it working very nicely.


So, that's my first attempt at winding a pickup, and I'm pretty pleased with the results.  Still got loads of wire left if I get keen and fancy making more sometime.  The old lipstick pickup was dead anyway and I reckon I've probably used no more than a quarter of the £8 roll of wire.

I don't think the pros like @OilCityPickups have anything to worry about (it took me the best part of two days to make this!) but I'm quite chuffed that it's a functional pickup, and was an interesting project.

downbytheriver

That is a piece of genius

DartmoorHedgehog

downbytheriver said:

That is a piece of genius

I don't know about genius... more of a fairly-well-planned bodge, with a bit of luck thrown in.  But thanks

downbytheriver

What is genius but a well planned bodge? 

ICBM

The use of Lego is world-class .

DartmoorHedgehog

Thanks @ICBM - Never get rid of your Lego, it's the best prototyping / temporary machine building kit that exists (just happens to be marketed as a toy). Fantastic stuff

gretschthumper

I love that sort of thing - who thinks of using lego for a pickup winder? Most would go and buy something from Stewmac for a couple of hundred quid .. top darts ma man! 

hollywoodrox

He really is a genius , after decades I can still make an abortion out of a string change 

PeteC

Lego finally found its destiny - excellent work.   

Very interested in the solid body mandolin build as I’m also planning one 

DartmoorHedgehog

PeteC said:

Lego finally found its destiny - excellent work.   

Very interested in the solid body mandolin build as I’m also planning one 

Thanks.  Mandolin build should be along soon - but be warned my building techniques are not exactly what you'd call normal! My garage/workshop and toolkit are much more "mechanic" than "luthier".  If you've seen my other guitar and violin projects you'll know what to expect...

OilCityPickups

the wire feed for pickup winding machines comes off the end of the roll (like a fixed spool fishing reel) the roll doesn't rotate ... that's a sure fire way to have a bad day! 

DartmoorHedgehog

Ah thanks @OilCityPickups - so it would be better next time just to stand the roll upright on the floor would it?  It actually seemed to work quite well with it on the rotating stand, but thinking about it I can see it would probably unwind more freely the way you suggest - perhaps I wouldn't have snapped it so many times (although TBH I was pretty happy with only failing three or four times having never done it before).
I probably got away with it because my winding machine was running pretty slowly - only a bit over 200rpm because I couldn't get the counter to work reliably at higher speed.  From what I've read most people do it a lot faster than that - then I may have had more trouble with my rotating wire spool.

Jazzthat

Awesome patent

OilCityPickups

DartmoorHedgehog said:

Ah thanks @OilCityPickups - so it would be better next time just to stand the roll upright on the floor would it?  It actually seemed to work quite well with it on the rotating stand, but thinking about it I can see it would probably unwind more freely the way you suggest - perhaps I wouldn't have snapped it so many times (although TBH I was pretty happy with only failing three or four times having never done it before).
I probably got away with it because my winding machine was running pretty slowly - only a bit over 200rpm because I couldn't get the counter to work reliably at higher speed.  From what I've read most people do it a lot faster than that - then I may have had more trouble with my rotating wire spool.

A few tips tips: 
Our wire rolls feed from the floor ... the wire goes up and through an eyelet that takes it through 90 degrees to the winding machine ... there is practically zero friction this way. This enables us to wind at 700 to 1000 RPM. The friction can then be applied by either our fingers for hand winding, or our tensioner for machine winding. It's often the jerking of a roll accelerating and decelerating that breaks the wire.
Not all wire is created equal: some wire that I've seen cheaply on ebay is not properly annealed and so is far more brittle than good quality stuff - I suspect it ends up with cheapjack sellers on ebay as it's 'reject batches' from the less scrupulous wire makers. You occasionally find this reject wire is inconsistent in grade (I have a roll that I bought years ago as 43awg and is actually closer to 45awg) and sometimes you find wire where the coating process hasn't gone well, and the wire has a powdery, white residue that gets all over your hands and the winding machine - and actually makes the wire sticky and prone to breaking.

There are a couple of grades of wire available for any given diameter: grade one and grade two solderable poly are most common. Don't try to say wind a PAF with grade two wire, as you won't get all you need on. Grade two is 'double build' like the old 'heavy Formvar'  ... same internal diameter as the equivalent grade one ... but a VERY thick coating which just eats up space on a bobbin. 

That's a very nice looking bobbin you wound mind ... well done! 

I'll add to this: if anyone wants pickup winding advice - don't suffer in silence and waste materials - ask me :-) I don't bite. 

Pointless fact: the original lipstick pickup had no bobbin, the wire was wound straight onto the magnet. That magnet was also the very unusual 'alnico 6' - in fact I don't know of any other pickup that has used that alnico grade.

DartmoorHedgehog

Thanks @OilCityPickups ;
I had discussed pickup winding on here some time ago (and I think you were one of the people who gave me some general advice at the time), but for some reason the wire feeding off the end of the roll like that either didn't come up or didn't stick in my head.  Since you mentioning it in the earlier post I've re-watched a few Youtube videos and it's plainly obvious now that wire feeds that way - don't know how I missed it before. I think my wire is probably quite decent (43awg from Brocott, sold as coil/pickup wire) so that probably helped my success even with my slightly odd setup.
I just ran the wire over my finger through a bit of cloth, didn't find I needed to add any more tension (but perhaps the drag from the rotating wire spool provided all it needed).

I did read about the Dano lipstick pickups being wound directly onto the magnet - I'd imagine that would have to be a very "sausage-shaped" coil to avoid it falling off the sides.  I'm glad my donor pickup had a bobbin.

OilCityPickups said: That's a very nice looking bobbin you wound mind ... well done! 

Thank you! That coming from you feels like a seal of approval   Next time I need a pickup I'll have another go at making one (I've got plenty of wire left) and keep your tips in mind.

OilCityPickups

DartmoorHedgehog said:

Thanks @OilCityPickups ;;
I had discussed pickup winding on here some time ago (and I think you were one of the people who gave me some general advice at the time), but for some reason the wire feeding off the end of the roll like that either didn't come up or didn't stick in my head.  Since you mentioning it in the earlier post I've re-watched a few Youtube videos and it's plainly obvious now that wire feeds that way - don't know how I missed it before. I think my wire is probably quite decent (43awg from Brocott, sold as coil/pickup wire) so that probably helped my success even with my slightly odd setup.
I just ran the wire over my finger through a bit of cloth, didn't find I needed to add any more tension (but perhaps the drag from the rotating wire spool provided all it needed).

I did read about the Dano lipstick pickups being wound directly onto the magnet - I'd imagine that would have to be a very "sausage-shaped" coil to avoid it falling off the sides.  I'm glad my donor pickup had a bobbin.

OilCityPickups said:

That's a very nice looking bobbin you wound mind ... well done! 

Fingers alone are better than using cloth to feed the wire through ... you need more tension than you think generally, and bare fingers give a bit more resistance. Yep Danelectro coils are VERY  (flattened) sausage shaped, as are old Hofner and Burns 'air coils'. 
Something that most folks don't realise is the shape of the coil plays a huge part in giving the final tone. Air coils tend to be short and flat with a wide 'coil aperture' ... this allows relatively underwound coils to have more mids and bass than tall/narrow coils.  

Milk

I have no idea on winding pickups and I believe its a art form to get it right so people who do it like @OilCityPickups for a living amaze me.

But hats off @DartmoorHedgehog who did it with lego. id think I got some lego somewhere I might have to give It a try.

DartmoorHedgehog

OilCityPickups said:

Fingers alone are better than using cloth to feed the wire through ... you need more tension than you think generally, and bare fingers give a bit more resistance.

That's interesting - I was afraid it would cut my finger if I didn't use the cloth.

DartmoorHedgehog

Milk said:

I have no idea on winding pickups and I believe its a art form to get it right so people who do it like @OilCityPickups for a living amaze me.

But hats off @DartmoorHedgehog who did it with lego. id think I got some lego somewhere I might have to give It a try.

I think there's definitely an art in winding a pickup to have a particular sound.  From what I've heard there are all sorts of factors that affect the frequency response and tone of the pickup (magnet type, wire thickness, number of turns, winding tension, shape of the coil etc) so being able to make a specific-sounding pickup on demand, and consistently, is a real skill.

The aim of my efforts was just to produce a functional pickup for my mando project, because I had some parts lying around and fancied a go at it.  I'm not planning on getting into pickup winding really, so didn't want to invest time or money in proper kit (hence the Lego and pedometer).  The pickup is definitely functional - if it sounds good it'll be by pure luck. But I think it'll be good enough for my purposes (and making it was quite fun and used up some of the pointless bits I had in my box).