Experience of Couriers for Acoustic Guitars

Roland · March 2021

This discussion was created from comments split from: Feeler- Martin 00028 Re Imagined with LRBaggs Anthem - Now for Sale.

Sammy · March 2021

As I have been asked yet again, I would like to confirm this is collection only as I will not ship an acoustic, partly down to the buyer needs to try any decent quality acoustic out first before purchase, as they all do differ, plus more importantly it is very hard to get payment from either the carrier &/or insurers if there are any damages done in transit and if/when they do finally agree after many months it will normally just be for the cost for a repair! Even if the guitar has been lost or stolen whilst in the carriers care, which again will takes ages for any recompense, they will look at every which way they can devalue the item, so a lesser amount is paid out!

Many general carriers now, will actually not cover musical items as there is so much fraud and those that do, if you actually check the small print in respect of musical instruments, have certain exclusions, including how it has to be packed and max amount of payout.

You can of course buy specialist cover from certain insurers, though very few now, but for an expensive instrument you are not talking around £30-£50 you are looking in the hundreds for full cover, including the stipulations & exclusions that go with it!

Shops, retailers, etc will obviously ship as they have to for their business trade, but they will have special agreed business rates, according to amounts sent. Though they do rely on not too many going astray or being damaged as normally they will only receive the trade value, unless an agreed value is been accepted which would be at extra cost, so in effect there is no actual gain for them at all, as there has been no sale! Plus there will still be a long wait for any investigation and any recompense!

Just to advise I previously worked in various aspects of insurance for over 40 years, including on the claims side so know most of the ins and outs of what goes on, also a friend of mine has been working for several years, as advisor for a larger well known carrier on the fraud side, say no more! I have actually been a victum myself, as previously had a really special guitar which I bought from a private seller that had been seriously damaged somewhere along the line and it took over six months for the carrier to pay out and even then it was just for a repair only, which though it was really well done, totally took the shine off a lovely original guitar! So sorry no more shipping for me for any guitar, whether it be electric or acoustic I may decide to sell, as its too much trouble and concern! Thanks

TrevinDevon · March 2021

I've used Secursus a few times. They seem very reasonable, though fortunately I've never had to make a claim.

Sammy · March 2021

Okay I did some delving into Secursus as the prices, cover etc seem too good to be true!

The person who owns the company is called Valentin Scemama he is a French 27 year old, he actually started a Company called Secursus in the UK with a capital of £100 in Nov 2017, the Company was dissolved in April 2019 due to a compulsory strike off!

His new venture as Secursus was set up in France in December 2018, in 2019 he had an annual turnover of US$33,192

and was the only employee at that time, though it appears he now has a sales person and a claims person. Below is the only real detail I could find from a French site who give Company information, you have to sign in for more info.

"SECURSUS is located in NEUILLY SUR SEINE, ILE-DE-FRANCE, France and is part of the Insurance Agencies & Brokerages Industry. SECURSUS has 1 employees at this location and generates $33,192 in sales (USD)."

Secursus is not an insurer it is just an insurance agent, yet I cannot find anywhere, the actual insurers who are covering these risks! Also from his set up in the UK it states that he is french but resides in Spain!

You only have to really read through all the statements on the website to see this is not all it seems, how would they be able to pay out within 30 days, how can it be the same price for anywhere, the high amounts they are prepared to give for very little premiums, etc plus their conditions such as, you must either refuse the package of write on the delivery note if you think damage has been caused otherwise you can't claim, that means you would have to write on nearly every delivery note to save guard yourself, most have a small dent or tear somewhere on the packaging, also cant see the carriers being too happy about that being done everytime! etc Also interestingly, nowhere on their site does it mention anywhere about musical instruments, even though they say everything else is covered if not on their exclusion list! I find this very odd as all carriers mention about musical instruments ( either excluding them or limiting them), musical intruments are even mentioned on your own household insurance!

As I have advised Secursus is just an agency, (the middleman who is Valentin Scemama), who looks like he previously failed in the UK. Please note Secursus are not an insurer and have no idea who the insurer &/or insurers they are using to underwrite these risks!

Therefore you have to make your choice, as theres not much money in Secursus pot, if as they say, it all goes tits up!

Personally I wouldn't touch them with a barge pole!

Gandalph · March 2021

This is good to know, thanks. I’ve used them a couple of times in the past but I won’t be using them again. In fact the last guitar I posted (eBay sale) was very nearly stolen by the courier driver. It was only when I contacted them with threats of police and legal action that it ‘miraculously’ turned up.

Far too much stress and in future I will not be posting out any more guitars. I’ve travelled to buy/sell before and happily will again. I’m done with posting.

benjyt123 · March 2021

Gandalph said:

This is good to know, thanks. I’ve used them a couple of times in the past but I won’t be using them again. In fact the last guitar I posted (eBay sale) was very nearly stolen by the courier driver. It was only when I contacted them with threats of police and legal action that it ‘miraculously’ turned up.
Far too much stress and in future I will not be posting out any more guitars. I’ve travelled to buy/sell before and happily will again. I’m done with posting.

Some of the boys I work with manage to pick up dirt cheap tech and what not. I asked how they manage to acquire it so cheap and it was from courier drivers. They'll take a photo of the parcel at the door and load it back in to the van and take it home and flog it.

I really don't blame you for not wanting to ship. Especially for the asking price. And to be fair, guitar boxes do have a certain shape. It's either gonna be a guitar case or a couple of ironing boards.

TrevinDevon · March 2021

Sammy said:

Okay I did some delving into Secursus as the prices, cover etc seem too good to be true!
[...]
Personally I wouldn't touch them with a barge pole!

Good info, @Sammy; well worth knowing. I've done a bit more digging myself. UPS accept musical instruments. Their UK shipment price is just under £21, delivered next day, including an extra £5 for £1000 cover against loss or damage, which would be a good deal for a cheaper instrument. Their website is something of a labyrinth, and I haven't managed to discover if this can be increased, but internationally, the charge for cover is 1% of the parcel's value.

Fifty9 · March 2021

TrevinDevon said:

Sammy said:

Okay I did some delving into Secursus as the prices, cover etc seem too good to be true!
[...]
Personally I wouldn't touch them with a barge pole!

Good info, @Sammy; well worth knowing. I've done a bit more digging myself. UPS accept musical instruments. Their UK shipment price is just under £21, delivered next day, including an extra £5 for £1000 cover against loss or damage, which would be a good deal for a cheaper instrument. Their website is something of a labyrinth, and I haven't managed to discover if this can be increased, but internationally, the charge for cover is 1% of the parcel's value.

I thought for guitars UPS is £100 damage and for loss it’s upto whatever value you pay to have covered.

fretfinder · March 2021

Sammy said:

Okay I did some delving into Secursus as the prices, cover etc seem too good to be true!
The person who owns the company is called Valentin Scemama he is a French 27 year old, he actually started a Company called Secursus in the UK with a capital of £100 in Nov 2017, the Company was dissolved in April 2019 due to a compulsory strike off!
His new venture as Secursus was set up in France in December 2018, in 2019 he had an annual turnover of US$33,192
and was the only employee at that time, though it appears he now has a sales person and a claims person. Below is the only real detail I could find from a French site who give Company information, you have to sign in for more info.
"SECURSUS is located in NEUILLY SUR SEINE, ILE-DE-FRANCE, France and is part of the Insurance Agencies & Brokerages Industry. SECURSUS has 1 employees at this location and generates $33,192 in sales (USD)."

Secursus is not an insurer it is just an insurance agent, yet I cannot find anywhere, the actual insurers who are covering these risks! Also from his set up in the UK it states that he is french but resides in Spain!

You only have to really read through all the statements on the website to see this is not all it seems, how would they be able to pay out within 30 days, how can it be the same price for anywhere, the high amounts they are prepared to give for very little premiums, etc plus their conditions such as, you must either refuse the package of write on the delivery note if you think damage has been caused otherwise you can't claim, that means you would have to write on nearly every delivery note to save guard yourself, most have a small dent or tear somewhere on the packaging, also cant see the carriers being too happy about that being done everytime! etc Also interestingly, nowhere on their site does it mention anywhere about musical instruments, even though they say everything else is covered if not on their exclusion list! I find this very odd as all carriers mention about musical instruments ( either excluding them or limiting them), musical intruments are even mentioned on your own household insurance!

As I have advised Secursus is just an agency, (the middleman who is Valentin Scemama), who looks like he previously failed in the UK. Please note Secursus are not an insurer and have no idea who the insurer &/or insurers they are using to underwrite these risks!
Therefore you have to make your choice, as theres not much money in Secursus pot, if as they say, it all goes tits up!
Personally I wouldn't touch them with a barge pole!

Good post. I think it would be worth you posting this on the general Guitars page (not the classifieds) about Securus, so that more people on here would see it. It’s very useful information and it would be interesting to see if others have used Securus or have any different views. The Acoustics classifieds section doesn’t have nearly so many viewers as some of the other pages.

Sammy · March 2021

fretfinder said:

Sammy said:

Okay I did some delving into Secursus as the prices, cover etc seem too good to be true!
The person who owns the company is called Valentin Scemama he is a French 27 year old, he actually started a Company called Secursus in the UK with a capital of £100 in Nov 2017, the Company was dissolved in April 2019 due to a compulsory strike off!
His new venture as Secursus was set up in France in December 2018, in 2019 he had an annual turnover of US$33,192
and was the only employee at that time, though it appears he now has a sales person and a claims person. Below is the only real detail I could find from a French site who give Company information, you have to sign in for more info.
"SECURSUS is located in NEUILLY SUR SEINE, ILE-DE-FRANCE, France and is part of the Insurance Agencies & Brokerages Industry. SECURSUS has 1 employees at this location and generates $33,192 in sales (USD)."

Secursus is not an insurer it is just an insurance agent, yet I cannot find anywhere, the actual insurers who are covering these risks! Also from his set up in the UK it states that he is french but resides in Spain!

You only have to really read through all the statements on the website to see this is not all it seems, how would they be able to pay out within 30 days, how can it be the same price for anywhere, the high amounts they are prepared to give for very little premiums, etc plus their conditions such as, you must either refuse the package of write on the delivery note if you think damage has been caused otherwise you can't claim, that means you would have to write on nearly every delivery note to save guard yourself, most have a small dent or tear somewhere on the packaging, also cant see the carriers being too happy about that being done everytime! etc Also interestingly, nowhere on their site does it mention anywhere about musical instruments, even though they say everything else is covered if not on their exclusion list! I find this very odd as all carriers mention about musical instruments ( either excluding them or limiting them), musical intruments are even mentioned on your own household insurance!

As I have advised Secursus is just an agency, (the middleman who is Valentin Scemama), who looks like he previously failed in the UK. Please note Secursus are not an insurer and have no idea who the insurer &/or insurers they are using to underwrite these risks!
Therefore you have to make your choice, as theres not much money in Secursus pot, if as they say, it all goes tits up!
Personally I wouldn't touch them with a barge pole!

Good post. I think it would be worth you posting this on the general Guitars page (not the classifieds) about Securus, so that more people on here would see it. It’s very useful information and it would be interesting to see if others have used Securus or have any different views. The Acoustics classifieds section doesn’t have nearly so many viewers as some of the other pages.

Hi Fretfinder,

Funny enough, I was going to suggest that myself as I only posted this info on my post, as someone mentioned them, after I gave reasons why I wouldn't ship the Martin, or infact any guitar. Plus it's now starting to derail my sale!

Image: https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/plugins/EmojiExtender/emoji/fb/smiley.png

Not sure which section to post this in, but would be more than happy if you could kindly do this for me and repost in the appropiate part!

Thanks

surfguy13 · March 2021

I think that being prepared to ship whilst we are in the middle of this pandemic is almost a prerequisite if you want to sell something like an acoustic.

I have used UPS for shipping for the past 25 years + and in all that time have never had a single issue and I have shipped regularly and all over the world. Many of the shipments have been through my business and don't involve musical instruments but I have shipped very old vintage amps and acoustics within the UK and also to many countries worldwide without a hitch.

I have a small business account with UPS which helps, certainly in terms of getting cheaper prices, but the service they offer applies to business customers and non-business alike.

First thing to say is that in my experience UPS is the only courier out there who offers genuine insurance for musical instruments. When booking a parcel using standard UPS services they will insure a musical instruments valued at up to £2500 through the online booking platform. The cost is 2% of the total value. For example a £2500 guitar would cost £50. Sounds like a lot but is a drop in the ocean compared to loosing the instrument or having it damaged beyond repair.

If you have an instrument or amp valued at over £2500 UPS will still insure it, you just have to ask for a special quote. The price will not be any more, pro rata, than the standard 2% in most cases. I used to use an intermediary called Transglobal Express here in the UK, although I now use UPS direct. Transglobal are great and if you call them they will quote you for additional insurance for a value over £2500. Slightly more complicated doing it through UPS direct.

Interestingly, although the level of service is extremely high, you don't pay through the nose for it. I often find that UPS are considerably cheaper than virtually any other courier company.

My advice is, try Transglobal Express if you have reservations about shipping; they have great customer services and if you have an issue they will resolve it with the shipping company you book with, on your behalf. This is the advantage of booking through an intermediary.

I wouldn't hesitate to ship a high value acoustic via UPS, regardless of value, but wouldn't even consider another shipping company. Their service, in my experience, has been impeccable and their track record has been 100%.

By the way, I don't work for UPS or Transglobal Express!!!!!!

Fifty9 · March 2021

I thought the UPS small print is that the insurance covers loss but not damage? Damage is limited to £100 no?

They’re still my preference however and have never had an issue in ~20 guitars/amps shipped.

surfguy13 · March 2021

Fifty9 said:

I thought the UPS small print is that the insurance covers loss but not damage? Damage is limited to £100 no?

They’re still my preference however and have never had an issue in ~20 guitars/amps shipped.

That's really interesting and I have to admit I've never delved into the small print. You may well be right. If this is the case then it's not really worth the paper its written on!! Thanks for mantioning that as it really does make a huge difference!

However, like you, I'll still use it for everything other than the odd thing that is high value and does require insurance.

surfguy13 · March 2021

Fifty9 said:

I thought the UPS small print is that the insurance covers loss but not damage? Damage is limited to £100 no?

They’re still my preference however and have never had an issue in ~20 guitars/amps shipped.

OK, I have just called UPS and spoken to the account manager who we have access to. He confirmed, as you rightly say, that damage is restricted to £100 and loss is fully covered. I should have had this conversation a long time ago!

I then called Transglobal Express and the good news is that the insurance you buy when booking through them, regardless or which carrier you use, is covered by their own insurance policy and not insurance provided by the carrier itself. Again, news to me, I had no idea. I had assumed, wrongly, that when booking UPS through Transglobal that I was buying insurance from UPS.

So, I went through all the insurance options/exclusions with the guy at Transglobal and musical instruments (and music gear generally) does not appear on any of their exclusion lists. Therefore, anything you insure, up to £2500, is fully covered for damage and loss. The cost of the insurance is 2% of the value of the item being shipped.

If you require insurance over £2500 then you get a quote from their broker. There are many more exclusions and excesses for items of £2500 but musical instruments are not excluded.

Everything is laid out clearly here; I have only read through it quickly but it seems straightforward and there doesn't appear to any grey areas:

https://www.transglobalexpress.co.uk/information/insurance/standard-insurance/

Sorry for the bum information in my first post but thanks in abundance to @Fifty9 . Seems like Transglobal Express is the way to go and we will now be reverting back to them with immediate effect!!!

danishbacon · March 2021

Further to the whole secursus questions raised, I contacted Valentin and asked for clarification:

So first of all, the UK company statement is totally true.

Back in 2017, we tried to launch Secursus in London but we gave up as we needed to be in London physically in order to have the insurance broker license.

We finally launched the company in France, where me and my partner lived.

Regarding the 2019 revenue, this number is not correct. I really don’t know how this number came up as we don’t publish our turnover as we’re not a public company.

It is not necessary to sign up to see our company details, it’s here https://www.societe.com/societe/secursus-837953041.html

It’s in french but I believe you can translate it if you use Chrome.

You can also find some of our employees on Linkedin.

Our insurer is MS&AD, one of the largest insurance company.

We insure hundreds of thousands of shipments per year, in more than 80 countries. That’s the first time I see someone say « rates are too good to be true ».

Fifty9 · March 2021

surfguy13 said:

Fifty9 said:

I thought the UPS small print is that the insurance covers loss but not damage? Damage is limited to £100 no?

They’re still my preference however and have never had an issue in ~20 guitars/amps shipped.

OK, I have just called UPS and spoken to the account manager who we have access to. He confirmed, as you rightly say, that damage is restricted to £100 and loss is fully covered. I should have had this conversation a long time ago!

I then called Transglobal Express and the good news is that the insurance you buy when booking through them, regardless or which carrier you use, is covered by their own insurance policy and not insurance provided by the carrier itself. Again, news to me, I had no idea. I had assumed, wrongly, that when booking UPS through Transglobal that I was buying insurance from UPS.

So, I went through all the insurance options/exclusions with the guy at Transglobal and musical instruments (and music gear generally) does not appear on any of their exclusion lists. Therefore, anything you insure, up to £2500, is fully covered for damage and loss. The cost of the insurance is 2% of the value of the item being shipped.

If you require insurance over £2500 then you get a quote from their broker. There are many more exclusions and excesses for items of £2500 but musical instruments are not excluded.

Everything is laid out clearly here; I have only read through it quickly but it seems straightforward and there doesn't appear to any grey areas:

https://www.transglobalexpress.co.uk/information/insurance/standard-insurance/

Sorry for the bum information in my first post but thanks in abundance to @Fifty9 . Seems like Transglobal Express is the way to go and we will now be reverting back to them with immediate effect!!!

Thanks in return for getting to the bottom of it. No I know of a way to actually insure them for damage too!

Sammy · March 2021

danishbacon said:

Further to the whole secursus questions raised, I contacted Valentin and asked for clarification:

So first of all, the UK company statement is totally true.
Back in 2017, we tried to launch Secursus in London but we gave up as we needed to be in London physically in order to have the insurance broker license.
We finally launched the company in France, where me and my partner lived.
Regarding the 2019 revenue, this number is not correct. I really don’t know how this number came up as we don’t publish our turnover as we’re not a public company.

It is not necessary to sign up to see our company details, it’s here https://www.societe.com/societe/secursus-837953041.html
It’s in french but I believe you can translate it if you use Chrome.
You can also find some of our employees on Linkedin.

Our insurer is MS&AD, one of the largest insurance company.

We insure hundreds of thousands of shipments per year, in more than 80 countries. That’s the first time I see someone say « rates are too good to be true ».

Looking at the info of the Company details he has provided, you have to buy the reports if you really want to find out, which is I presume similar type of one I viewed giving his annual turnover amount.

If you look further down, on the one he has provided you will see his Capital is just Euros 5,000 okay he may only have put in a small amount of Capital, considering he is the owner and only share holder, but what is more concerning if you look at the reports you can buy, it shows something worring as below!

04/16/2019

Decision (s) of the sole shareholder - Continuation of activity despite net assets that have fallen below half of the share capital

Which means his net assets according to this site were less than Euros 2,500!

As far as his excuse was that he needed to be in London etc to have an insurance license, that appears to be a red herring. In London the rules are far more strickter for anyone to get an Insurance Broker license, as London believe it or not, was, not sure now, Lol, the main centre for insurance due to the expertise of Lloyd's etc, which WW everyone looked to. Therefore rules are far more stringent, apart from any others, one being that you must have had previous Insurance experince, which if you check out Mr Valentin did not have! His previous experince was working as a vintage watch advisor until 2017, little wonder he couldn't get a broking license in the UK! In fact on another site in France he is down as see below.

Valentin Scemama

Young, ambitious and self-taught entrepreneur

Marketing • Sales/Bus Dev

Neuilly-sur-Seine, France

He also advised as above, that he was living in France, well he definately wasn't at the time, as according to Companies House, he advised them he was living in Spain, when he tried to get his brokers license in the UK, though he may have since moved to France.

Also strange how he says he doesn't publish his turnover, yet the site he directed you to must have evidence of this, as otherwise how would they have access to his Companies net assets! Plus even though France has less regulations than the UK with regard to Insurance, I am sure you would have to advise your accounts to some formal body if you are setting up as an Insurance Broker!

It's entirely up to anyone if they wish to use this Company its their choice, but I stand by my previous comment of "I wouldn't touch them with a barge pole"

Howdy, Stranger!

Categories

In this Discussion

Become a Subscriber!

Experience of Couriers for Acoustic Guitars

Comments