Dorian cheats

rsvmark

I think I have just learned some massive ‘cheats’ that massively ease the brain ache and help improvisation. Here we go.

Lets say we are in a key of Bb major. (Reason for this so bear with me)

Bb major diatonic chords are:
Bb, c min, d min, Eb, F, g min, A dim.

So I am playing in the ‘second’ mode Dorian so C Dorian.

the Dorian mode is 1 2 b3 4 5 6 b7 when related back to the C.

So my cheats are:
I can play in Amin pentatonic (we all know that one right)
I can play C min pentatonic with added 2 and 6 (related back to the C)
I can visualise the barre chords in Bb major and play any notes from those barre chords so triads, double stops, slides, Hendrix type hammer ons..... 

I used a generic jam track and for the first time ever was flying all over the place using the note on the bottom e as a reference point, visualising the diatonic barre chord at that reference point, and selecting the notes from that barre chord shape.

secretly rather pleased with myself.

xscaramanga

You can play A minor pentatonic, but you're not playing Dorian if you do. You're playing C major pentatonic, with a major third (E natural instead of Eb). You could play the A blues scale and leave out the natural 5th. I think my brain would find that harder than just playing Dorian though.

Visualising the chord shapes is great.

xscaramanga

D minor pentatonic works as a cheat for C Dorian.

D = 2nd
F = 4th
G = 5th
A = major 6th
C = root

It's weird though, none of your normal pentatonic phrasing works, you have to find an entirely new approach to using the shape.

digitalkettle

Your C minor pentatonic with added 2 and 6 is useful.

On paper, A minor pentatonic is not a good fit.

C minor, D minor, and G minor fit…but they’re just shapes in Bb…as are your diatonic chord shapes. Good way of lighting up the fretboard though…the tricky thing is not letting familiar shapes divert you from the tonal centre.

digitalkettle

I took so long to write my post that it looks like I copied @jonnyscaramanga ’s homework

GuyBoden

Let your ear, be your guide.

viz

What Guy B said. 

But / and also:

It’s good that you are able to relate everything to the “parent major scale” and I sort-of see how you use the chords in Bb major that you mentioned later on, maybe. 

For me however, and this is just personal, I won’t - actually I can’t - think of C dorian as having anything to do with Bb major. The fact that they share the same frequencies is to me trivial compared to the fact that C dorian is like C minor, but with a raised 6th. That’s all I think when I hear C dorian. 

So the 3 main facts of that are:

1) C is the key note.
2) We’re in a minor key, so the 3rd is always minor: (Eb in this case). 
3) As it’s Dorian, the 6th is raised: (A not Ab) which is what gives it its Olde Englishe feel. 

Them’s the facts of Dorian, no more, no less. 

That tells me a few things in terms of how I might want to play Dorian music. This is very much a musical approach not a mathematical approach. 


1) I can play C minor penta, because root-based pentatonic scales work in all major and minor modes - because they lack the modal notes. (It’ll ‘work’, but I won’t get the raised 6th.)

2) I could go up to the 2nd degree of the scale and play Dm penta because it although it lacks the minor 3rd (Eb), it has the raised 6th (A), and I want to accentuate that note’s sound. (Actually I don’t exactly do this myself, because I don’t play shaped-based scales, I play tunes that are in my head; but I could). 

3) I could also play the v chord’s penta (in this case Gm penta), but it wouldn’t do much for me because it doesn’t contain the magic dorian 6th, though it does have a slightly different flavour to boring old Cm penta. It lacks the minor 3rd of Cm, but it has the 2nd. 

4) In terms of chords, instead of the minor iv (Fm) that we use in Cm, I must play a major IV (F), whose major 3rd accentuates the sound of the raised 6th. 

5) Also in terms of chords, as with any minor piece, I can play a minor v (Gm) or a major V (G or G7), it’s up to me. Pure dorian has a Gm but I can break that ‘rule’, play a G, and it’ll still sound dorian-ish. 

6) I need to avoid the VI chord typical of Cm altogether (Ab). 


That’s how I think anyway. 

As an amusing point of interest, my 6 points above each refer to the respective note in the scale of C Dorian

ArchtopDave

I fear that your "cheats" are potentially self defeating, as you're seeking to play quickly, rather than slowing down and developing an understanding and appreciation of the sound of the Dorian Scale. I like Dorian sound a lot. 

Further to the comment above  by @viz, Scott Henderson made the point some years back that, if you view a Dom 7th Chord as a Major Chord, then you can do the following. For example, take a straightforward A Blues, instead of just playing A minor Pentatonic, you can use B minor Pentatonic, C sharp Pentatonic, and F sharp Pentatonic ----> i.e. minor Pentatonic Scales based on the 2nd, 3rd, and 6th degrees of the A Major Scale, which are all minor Scales.

LooseMoose

She always looked the sort...

rsvmark

Thanks to everyone for your comments. I will need to sit back with a guitar, pen and paper later this evening and work through all the comments (which may take me some time!) to even understand them! Baby steps for me but perhaps what I failed to articulate in my op was that firstly I used this as a navigational approach. I don’t have encyclopaedic knowledge of the fretboard or intervals and at my age I constantly have to write stuff down or I bloody forget it! This approach enabled me to break out of the boxes as it were and play up and down the neck, not across it if that makes sense. It enabled musical ideas to come out that I had never tried/known before. Sure, some were shit but others were cool and to my ear sounded good which leads me on to....

Secondly just because you ‘can’ play a note, it doesn’t mean it sounds any good so I completely agree with the ear comments and being musical. 

sev112

Can you add a video,it would be so much easier ?