This term 'masterbuilt' is somewhat of a nisnomer.

jeztone2

I'm sure I once read somewhere that Tom Anderson builds the same volume of guitars in a year that the Fender Custom shop do in a month.

Having said that I have played some nice ones.

koneguitarist

I think master built means master assembled with a couple of finishing touches.

The whole essence of a fender was mass produced cost effective guitars, in a way similar to today's industry where you stop repairing, but replace faulty items instead. 

As for my earlier comment that still stands. The cheap labour that Fender utilised back in 50's didn't matter as majority of work was done on machines, with a bit of hand finishing to body shape.

The only difference now is that the machines are so much more consistent with a far higher tolerances. 

Do I think the guitars are made better today than before , yes, that's more to do with machines than the worker though.

richardhomer

koneguitarist;316673" said:

Do I think the guitars are made better today than before , yes, that's more to do with machines than the worker though.

I broadly agree with this but I think better quality control is a big part also.

Fender and Gibson machined bodies on Duplicarvers long before CNCs became the norm. Neither method produces a 'finished' part; both require hand-work. It's also true that in their worst periods, Fender's machines were heavily worn resulting in over-sized neck pockets/'wrong' body shapes - which no amount of skilled labour could remedy.

It seems to me now, that most makers (even at low price-points) simply won't let sub-standard guitars out of their factories.

This was certainly not the case in the 'Golden Era'. There was tremendous variation from one guitar to the next in the 50s and 60s.

The chances of picking up a 'duff' American Standard Strat now is pretty much nil (I accept weight/tonal variations will exist-I'm talking about tolerances, neck profiles, fret finishining, etc).

koneguitarist

I agree Richard, quality is much higher now in most cases, but the 50's stuff was pretty good it was only towards late 60's and into 70's that the quality dropped due to increased out put with out changing all the cutters so often etc

There is much less hand work needed now with the CNC machines as opposed to pin routers and also requires less final finishing due to new filler paints and hardeners.

ICBM

jeztone2 said:

I'm sure I once read somewhere that Tom Anderson builds the same volume of guitars in a year that the Fender Custom shop do in a month.

Maybe Anderson should increase his production numbers then… every one I've ever played has been perfectly made, and perfectly characterless.

I don't expect everyone to agree with that .

richardhomer said:

koneguitarist;316673" said:

Do I think the guitars are made better today than before , yes, that's more to do with machines than the worker though.

I broadly agree with this but I think better quality control is a big part also.

Fender and Gibson machined bodies on Duplicarvers long before CNCs became the norm. Neither method produces a 'finished' part; both require hand-work. It's also true that in their worst periods, Fender's machines were heavily worn resulting in over-sized neck pockets/'wrong' body shapes - which no amount of skilled labour could remedy.

It seems to me now, that most makers (even at low price-points) simply won't let sub-standard guitars out of their factories.

This was certainly not the case in the 'Golden Era'. There was tremendous variation from one guitar to the next in the 50s and 60s.

I agree with that, and one of the reasons is the internet. It takes a matter of minutes for a bad review to get around the world these days. Back then, it was word of mouth only and it took a long time before buyers realised the quality had dropped at Fender and Gibson.

Dave_Mc

^ Agreed. On another forum, one of the regulars posted that he got a Suhr pickup which was DOA once he soldered it in. Suhr apparently said that they wouldn't warranty it because he wasn't a professional guitar repairer. He posted on the forum to complain (fair enough, he's done tons of pickup swaps and knows what he's doing). Very soon afterwards a Suhr rep also posted on the forum to say he'd been taken care of (by that point the retailer had also stepped up and said it'd make things right, but it was still nice to know... though also a little bit scary that things you post might be being seen by people you don't know about ) ).

Trotter

I'm lucky enough to own a master built esquire & it's head & shoulders above any custom shop or standard production model I have ever played. To be honest I don't care what it is that they "do differently" to the other models because the proof is in the playability & the sound. Stunning instruments, every single one that I have been fortunate enough to play

ICBM

Trotter said:

I'm lucky enough to own a master built esquire & it's head & shoulders above any custom shop or standard production model I have ever played. To be honest I don't care what it is that they "do differently" to the other models because the proof is in the playability & the sound. Stunning instruments, every single one that I have been fortunate enough to play

Exactly. That's why I gave up disliking Relics as well .

I'm almost certain it's in the care taken to choose the best parts and assemble them properly. It sounds trivial to do that with essentially the same machine-made components, but it really isn't that easy, and it's quite time consuming hence costs a lot at the factory. Multiply that by all the margins in the supply chain and it isn't surprising they end up so much more expensive. Although I do think there may be an element of charging as much as they can get away with too...

HAL9000

Dave_Mc;317064" said:

Very soon afterwards a Suhr rep also posted on the forum to say he'd been taken care of

I take it you mean 'taken care of' Julie Andrews fashion, rather than 'taken care of' Kray twins fashion?

richardhomer

HAL9000;317458" said:

[quote="Dave_Mc;317064"]Very soon afterwards a Suhr rep also posted on the forum to say he'd been taken care of

I take it you mean 'taken care of' Julie Andrews fashion, rather than 'taken care of' Kray twins fashion? [/quote]
John Suhr does not like criticism. Fact!

SNAKEBITE

I guess it is similar to the car industry.

You can buy a Fender/custom shop Fender/Masterbuilt Fender and it would be like buying a Standard car/Modified car/Hot Rod.

The engineering behind the bits is the same, they have all been CNC'ed but you are paying for the labour and perceived Kudos behind the product.

You see a standard car driving down the street and you don't look twice, you see a modified car and you take a good look, but if you see a Hot rod then you really take time out to look at it and take it in.

All three cars go forward, backwards and hopefully go round corners, but it's how they do it and what they look like doing it that is so individual and how it is taken in is down to personal tastes.

Dave_Mc

HAL9000 said:

Dave_Mc;317064" said:

Very soon afterwards a Suhr rep also posted on the forum to say he'd been taken care of

I take it you mean 'taken care of' Julie Andrews fashion, rather than 'taken care of' Kray twins fashion?

LOL

telesquire

Things have changed with regards to production of the 'Masterbuilt' guitars. A lot of these changes came after John Page left the shop. In the old days the Masterbuilder did pretty much everything, cutting bodies, necks, spraying, winding and assembly.They really did build your guitar. When the management changed in the late 90's quite a few of the old builders left...Baker, Suhr, Hamel, Stuart, Black.The whole masterbuilt program changed and for commercial reasons numbers had to dramatically increase.

 I can tell you that in the 90's one of the most in demand builders was only producing 85 guitars in a year.Today that figure can be easily multiplied by 5. This is why a cursory glance at a UK dealers stocklist will reveal 35 masterbuilt guitars in stock.In the 90's you would not see a single one this side of the pond. Everything was custom ordered for waiting buyers with none going to sit on the shelf.It was much the same in the US.You could not order this many guitars. They were also a reasonably well kept secret producing many guitars purely for artists and high profile dealers.

Don't get me wrong, todays builders are busting their nuts producing these guitars just like the old builders were. Just work and production requirements have changed to meet the demand.Which is the better guitar? Thats easy. I took my old 90's masterbuilt Esquire to one of the countries top techs...he was amazed. His words..'Jesus, I never knew they made them like this...wow!' Am I reasonably qualified to make these claims? Yep. I have owned thirty plus Masterbuilt Fenders, the earliest being 1990, the lastest one a 2006.

Nice to see both Buddy Guy and Jeff Beck refusing to give up their old school Masterbuilt guitars despite the shop best attempts to produce them new ones.

Todays Masterbuilt guitars are still great guitars, not to sure they are worth the £5k price tag though.They hardly seem to be flying off the shelves either.

57Deluxe

...however they start out they end up being MASS DEBATED all over by us....

jd0272

57Deluxe;320906" said:

...however they start out they end up being MASS DEBATED all over by us....

Not wanked over mine yet.... I'll wait till she goes to bed (I'd just get called a deviant again).