Can anyone here do a "Smuggler" mod to my Tele

SnazzyGeezer

Hello,id like some "meat" removed from under the scratchplate of my swamp ash tele.
There are people local to me (south wales)
But they're either chocka, or the would be "Luthier" type,who shouldn't be allowed anywhere near an IKEA flatpack,although a decent guitar.
Thanks in advance

WezV

I think still have the templates from when I restored an original that had been filled in

SnazzyGeezer

Thats a very nice piece of reverse engineering

Jimbro66

SnazzyGeezer said:

Hello,id like some "meat" removed from under the scratchplate of my swamp ash tele.
There are people local to me (south wales)
But they're either chocka, or the would be "Luthier" type,who shouldn't be allowed anywhere near an IKEA flatpack,although a decent guitar.
Thanks in advance

Swamp Ash Teles are usually already fairly light, often below 7lbs, so if you reduce the body weight even more you might end up with a neck-heavy guitar that wants to nose-dive all the time. Just a thought.

On the other hand you might actually be a smuggler

victorludorum

GSP Basses has sold a few Smugglers Teles, so he might be able to help.

GSPBASSES

I do indeed make smugglers TC's, I'm not sure if it would be practical to send a body to me to have that work done. I have a minimum charge of £75 for any work on the body that I did not make (free if I made it), if you then add the postage to me and back again it would be quite an expensive operation.

 If you haven't got a router to do the work yourself, then possibly just drilling some fairly big holes almost to the thickness of the body under the scratch plate, would be the cheap answer.

Neckwringer

SnazzyGeezer said:

Hello,id like some "meat" removed from under the scratchplate of my swamp ash tele.
There are people local to me (south wales)
But they're either chocka, or the would be "Luthier" type,who shouldn't be allowed anywhere near an IKEA flatpack,although a decent guitar.
Thanks in advance

Is this purely for weight loss and is there a possible
resonance change to the guitar when rebuilt?

GoldenEraGuitars

Jimbro66 said:

SnazzyGeezer said:

Hello,id like some "meat" removed from under the scratchplate of my swamp ash tele.
There are people local to me (south wales)
But they're either chocka, or the would be "Luthier" type,who shouldn't be allowed anywhere near an IKEA flatpack,although a decent guitar.
Thanks in advance

Swamp Ash Teles are usually already fairly light, often below 7lbs, so if you reduce the body weight even more you might end up with a neck-heavy guitar that wants to nose-dive all the time. Just a thought.

On the other hand you might actually be a smuggler

Internet fallacy

WezV

GoldenEraGuitars said:

Jimbro66 said:

SnazzyGeezer said:

Hello,id like some "meat" removed from under the scratchplate of my swamp ash tele.
There are people local to me (south wales)
But they're either chocka, or the would be "Luthier" type,who shouldn't be allowed anywhere near an IKEA flatpack,although a decent guitar.
Thanks in advance

Swamp Ash Teles are usually already fairly light, often below 7lbs, so if you reduce the body weight even more you might end up with a neck-heavy guitar that wants to nose-dive all the time. Just a thought.

On the other hand you might actually be a smuggler

Internet fallacy

Which is a shame, as it really shouldn't be... but most "swamp" ash these days is just average weight, not the lightweight it should be to earn the name (its not just about growing it in a swamp)


On the smugglers routes, they were only used by Fender for a small time in 67 when wood supplies started to get heavier.  To me, it was a weight relief technique that didn't really work that well, so they didn't keep doing it.  Probably not cost effective for the difference it gave in the factory

As well as the original fender above I worked on, I also recently added some to another build that had a large plate and was feeling a bit heavy..     It only gives about 1/2lb of weight reduction on guitars in the 8-9lb range.... Most players wouldn't even notice this.  How much are people willing to pay for a 1/2lb reduction on an existing guitar?

Jimbro66

GoldenEraGuitars said:

Jimbro66 said:

SnazzyGeezer said:

Hello,id like some "meat" removed from under the scratchplate of my swamp ash tele.
There are people local to me (south wales)
But they're either chocka, or the would be "Luthier" type,who shouldn't be allowed anywhere near an IKEA flatpack,although a decent guitar.
Thanks in advance

Swamp Ash Teles are usually already fairly light, often below 7lbs, so if you reduce the body weight even more you might end up with a neck-heavy guitar that wants to nose-dive all the time. Just a thought.

On the other hand you might actually be a smuggler

Internet fallacy

No, that’s based on my own experience of owning quite a number of swamp ash Teles over the past 40 years. Maybe, as WezV says, swamp ash ain’t what it used to be.

BillDL

I certainly WILL NOT volunteer to do it for you and, after you read what I did, you wouldn't ask me to either.  Last week I decided to try and lighten the excessively heavy ash bodied Artist Guitars TC59 ('59 tele inspired but with humbuckers).  It only cost me £149 and I bought it on a whim to check out an Artist Guitars model without breaking the bank.  It wouldn't really have much resale value and I was going for functionality over beauty as well as being in a hurry.  It plays really well and sounds great, but the body is as heavy as my '79 ash bodied Strat and it's back-breaking.  Nobody except me will see the back of this guitar so I wasn't worried what it would look like.

Instead of spending time making a template for my router and hiding the neat cavities under the pickguard I attacked the back of the body and bored a very large hole in the upper part of the lower bout and a smaller one in the upper half of the upper bout well out of the way of anywhere important.  I used two sizes of standard rough-toothed holesaws on a hand-held electric drill to cut down to about 2/3 or maybe a bit more through the thickness of the body and then plunge routed out the middle by hand using the saw cuts as my guide.  Once done I slapped in some B&Q quick-drying water based polyurethane clear lacquer and made screw-on cover plates from some spare pickguard material without bothering to cut rebates for them to sit inside.  I slipped a few times with the router and cut past the saw cuts leaving a few rough indentations in the body wood outside the circumference of the round holes but cut the cavity covers large enough to hide them.

I do not notice any change in tone (I didn't really expect to) and the guitar can now be used on a strap for longer than 20 minutes without necessitating physiotherapy.  It's far from light, but I removed enough material to make the weight bearable without potentially affecting structural integrity in any way.

Would you like me to have a go at your guitar? 

WezV

Jimbro66 said:

GoldenEraGuitars said:

Jimbro66 said:

SnazzyGeezer said:

Hello,id like some "meat" removed from under the scratchplate of my swamp ash tele.
There are people local to me (south wales)
But they're either chocka, or the would be "Luthier" type,who shouldn't be allowed anywhere near an IKEA flatpack,although a decent guitar.
Thanks in advance

Swamp Ash Teles are usually already fairly light, often below 7lbs, so if you reduce the body weight even more you might end up with a neck-heavy guitar that wants to nose-dive all the time. Just a thought.

On the other hand you might actually be a smuggler

Internet fallacy

No, that’s based on my own experience of owning quite a number of swamp ash Teles over the past 40 years. Maybe, as WezV says, swamp ash ain’t what it used to be.

I'm not doing a "it ain't what it used to be".  Ash stocks are low, but that's disease related as much as over logging.  Guitars are not really the cause.

What it used to be was scrap. Its other name was Punk ash.  Not because it's good for punk music as I have read in all seriousness on the internet, but because it was crap for everything you would normally choose Ash for.   it dents easily and has none of the stiffness you want in furniture or construction.  

It's the regular Ash that grew in the wettest conditions.  This made for faster growth, bigger cells, and wider pores.   heavier when wet, but if you can dry it without  too much waste it does leave a very light wood behind which works well for guitars.

The trees grown a few meters away could be totally different

We are left with a term that exists with no criteria for its use.   It should mean the wood will be lighter than standard ash, hopefully it means it grew somewhere near a swamp. It certainly doesn't mean it will be lighter than another standard guitar wood like alder.   Generally, i think it tells you its not stupidly heavy, and it probably has some of that nice grain we associate with swamp ash

I've had some truly lightweight pieces before, so light you would swear they were made from foam.  I should have stocked up when i had the chance

GoldenEraGuitars

Jimbro66 said:

GoldenEraGuitars said:

Jimbro66 said:

SnazzyGeezer said:

Hello,id like some "meat" removed from under the scratchplate of my swamp ash tele.
There are people local to me (south wales)
But they're either chocka, or the would be "Luthier" type,who shouldn't be allowed anywhere near an IKEA flatpack,although a decent guitar.
Thanks in advance

Swamp Ash Teles are usually already fairly light, often below 7lbs, so if you reduce the body weight even more you might end up with a neck-heavy guitar that wants to nose-dive all the time. Just a thought.

On the other hand you might actually be a smuggler

Internet fallacy

No, that’s based on my own experience of owning quite a number of swamp ash Teles over the past 40 years. Maybe, as WezV says, swamp ash ain’t what it used to be.

Unfortunately swamp ash is getting a little heavier on average, and expensive. The odd thing is, there doesn’t seem to be a demand for it right now. Which is odd given that if something is in shortly supply we all want to get our hands on it. But it is quite simply getting heavier and “lightweight” swamp ash is definitely at a premium right now.

WezV

GoldenEraGuitars said:

Jimbro66 said:

GoldenEraGuitars said:

Jimbro66 said:

SnazzyGeezer said:

Hello,id like some "meat" removed from under the scratchplate of my swamp ash tele.
There are people local to me (south wales)
But they're either chocka, or the would be "Luthier" type,who shouldn't be allowed anywhere near an IKEA flatpack,although a decent guitar.
Thanks in advance

Swamp Ash Teles are usually already fairly light, often below 7lbs, so if you reduce the body weight even more you might end up with a neck-heavy guitar that wants to nose-dive all the time. Just a thought.

On the other hand you might actually be a smuggler

Internet fallacy

No, that’s based on my own experience of owning quite a number of swamp ash Teles over the past 40 years. Maybe, as WezV says, swamp ash ain’t what it used to be.

Unfortunately swamp ash is getting a little heavier on average, and expensive. The odd thing is, there doesn’t seem to be a demand for it right now. Which is odd given that if something is in shortly supply we all want to get our hands on it. But it is quite simply getting heavier and “lightweight” swamp ash is definitely at a premium right now.

https://www.wood-database.com/swamp-ash/

"The term “Swamp Ash” does not refer to any particular species of ash (Fraxinus genus), but is generally used by luthiers to describe lightweight wood yielded from ash trees which are usually found in wet or swampy areas"



The catch here is the stuff sold as "swamp ash" is still lighter than your standard ash.   It can still be lightweight ash, without being a lightweight body blank, normal ash can be very heavy.

The cubic weight is much mote important than the addition of the word "swamp"

GSPBASSES

As we are talking about Swamp Ash, is the shortage all a big con by the big F, so we can pay even more for a Swamp Ash Strat or a Tele, particularly as they seem to be using it in the custom shop more than any of the wood.
 I've never believed that Fender used Swamp Ash in there original production in the 50s and then into the 60s, I believe it was white ash that is totally different. I say this as when I used to do guitar repairs re-sprays etc the Fenders I was working on during the 60s and early 70s would definitely not Swamp Ash, but that's another story. 

There is plenty of Swamp Ash around and very light. Today I went to DD's to purchase some Swamp Ash, I'm about to make a small production run of F Hole TC's, so I needed middle to heavy Swamp Ash. Most of what I picked up was far too light, I guess I would say most of it would make Strat under 4lb, that is no good for an F hole TC.

The photo below shows some of DD's Swamp Ash stock, that is just a very very small amount he has in stock, I believe he has about 10 m³ of Swamp Ash, that is an awful lot of guitars just. There are lots of one-piece bodies in stock plus pre-joined two-piece bodies.

 I did manage to find a few planks that weren't too light, I will let you know tomorrow roughly how heavy the guitars are going to be if they were solid body Strat's or TC's

 The price of Swamp Ash has more or less doubled in the last year, so much so, a one piece Swamp Ash body costs about the same as the one piece Honduras Mahogany body blank.



 I should point out I do not work for DD, he just happens to have his premises about 20 minutes drive away. I would be the 1st to admit or say his website is total crap, we all need to see the wood before we buy it and that you can't do on his website. However, you only have to contact Andrew or Lewis at DD's and they will sort wood for you and photograph it so you can see exact what they have and choose from there.