A slight Hump in the soundboard behind the bridge...Is this OK..?

KevS

Is this OK,a bit of a hump,a hint of a hump between the back of the bridge and the start of the sides on the soundboard...?
Is this normal...It isn't enough to effect the action,,
All my acoustics seem to have a little bit of this,.

I know a little bit of humidification might sort this out..
If that is the case,,what is the easiest solution..
Is there an affordable product..
We are talking 4 acoustic guitars here..
My little all mahogany topped one seems OK..
So my 4 Spruce topped ones..

It is a smidge more on my 12 string..Nothing drastic,perhaps a very slight lean happening on the bridge..
It is hard to detect if there is or not easily visually..
Is it best to tune down to D and Capo with 12 strings if you want the guitar to last..?
It is a cheap 12 string ,but a really good sounding guitar..

Do I humidify..Are all of your acoustics perfectly flat..?

Best Humidification products for in the case..?

Lewy

The hump - or "belly" as it is more commonly known - is entirely normal and to be expected. It's not a problem that needs sorting out unless it becomes excessive. All of my guitars have them. Humidity will increase, not decrease, the belly of the soundboard. If you think a soundboard has excess belly, the first thing to do is assess whether it has been over-humidified and look at dehumidification if necessary.

What's excessive? Generally if you lay a straight edge across the the guitar behind the bridge (so running at 90 degreed to the strings) kind of on the "crest" of the belly, that will lead to there being a gap between the underside of the straight edge and the top of the guitar at the edges of the soundboard. If that gap is 1/4" or less, you're fine.

I've never been into 12 strings but I believe people do tend to routinely tune them down from E standard due to tension

KevS

Much less than quarter of an inch..
I have a dehumidifier running as there was a problem and it has stabilised my electrics..
I keep my Acoustics in their cases..   

The 12 string is tiring on the hands,,I play a lot,my hands are strong enough for the rest of my guitars..
It may sound daft ,but my Les Pauls become unplayable if my hands become too strong,plus it can start to mess with my tendons..So maybe tuning it down is worth a try..

sev112

Buy a few cheap digital hygrometers on Amazon etc and see what the humidity is like in your guitar room.

ive managed to reduce the humidity in mine by circa 20% recently and it has made a world of difference to tone and playability and action on my acoustics

Mellish

A good, reliable hygrometer for your guitar room/case is the Oasis Caliber lV. You can calibrate it  

malcolmkindness

It's normal, don't worry about it. 

Cols

It depends on the 12 string.  

Many of the budget models will be the same body architecture as a regular 6 string, with a 12 string neck attached.  At concert pitch, the additional string tension may pull the soundboard up over time.

For these, it’s best to tune down two steps and use a capo if you need to play at concert pitch.

A high end model should have additional bracing to counter the extra tension which comes from 12 strings instead of 6.

ICBM

Cols said:

It depends on the 12 string.  

Many of the budget models will be the same body architecture as a regular 6 string, with a 12 string neck attached.  At concert pitch, the additional string tension may pull the soundboard up over time.

For these, it’s best to tune down two steps and use a capo if you need to play at concert pitch.

I would actually say this is true of all 12-strings, at any price point. They just sound better like that, as well as it being less stressful for the guitar.

If you really need to tune it to E, use really light strings - 9s or at a push 10s - but it probably won’t sound as good as 10s or 11s tuned a step down, the lower tuning just gives more resonance.

KevS

ICBM said:

Cols said:

It depends on the 12 string.  

Many of the budget models will be the same body architecture as a regular 6 string, with a 12 string neck attached.  At concert pitch, the additional string tension may pull the soundboard up over time.

For these, it’s best to tune down two steps and use a capo if you need to play at concert pitch.

I would actually say this is true of all 12-strings, at any price point. They just sound better like that, as well as it being less stressful for the guitar.

If you really need to tune it to E, use really light strings - 9s or at a push 10s - but it probably won’t sound as good as 10s or 11s tuned a step down, the lower tuning just gives more resonance.

It's just a cheapo Washburn D10 12 String from the early noughties,It sounds good is the thing..
It has gauge 10s on it..When you say a step down,do you mean Eflat or D..?

Being honest although the action isn't too high it can give me blisters under my callouses,so tuning down would be good.. .

Tannin

A "step" is two semi-tones, so that is D. But you will need to try it and see. A whole step down might result in a loose and flabby feel, not to mention sound. Or it might be the very thing. Try it in D first, then if you think it best, take it back up to Eb or even down to Db. (Hint: whenever I do this sort of thing, my first impression is that it's awful. But I force myself to play it like that for a day or two, and quite often come to like it. Moral of the story: don't be too quick to judge.)

KevS

Tannin said:

A "step" is two semi-tones, so that is D. But you will need to try it and see. A whole step down might result in a loose and flabby feel, not to mention sound. Or it might be the very thing. Try it in D first, then if you think it best, take it back up to Eb or even down to Db. (Hint: whenever I do this sort of thing, my first impression is that it's awful. But I force myself to play it like that for a day or two, and quite often come to like it. Moral of the story: don't be too quick to judge.)

I thought he meant two semitones,but I've heard the term used to describe it as a semi tone too..
I have just tuned down,it feels easier to play which is a bonus..
It is too early in the morning to play the guitar hard enough to see if it is as loud as it was and rattle free...
I will leave it a few hours to settle then retune.. 

Tannin

That's the best thing about this time of year (here I mean, not where you are): if I feel like playing at 6:20AM, I just step outside and have at it. Come the winter, that's not an option. Early morning playing, when the brain is clear and the fingers not yet tired out from manual work, is very often the best of all. But it is incompatible with marital bliss unless the weather lets me go outside to do it. 

ICBM

KevS said:

It's just a cheapo Washburn D10 12 String from the early noughties,It sounds good is the thing..

It has gauge 10s on it..When you say a step down,do you mean Eflat or D..?

D. In the old days, the lightest strings that were made were about 11s or even 12s, so it was never intended that 12-strings would be tuned up to E - they were meant to be tuned to D, or even longer ago as low as C... in the 1930s and 40s Leadbelly's Stella 12s were tuned to C. Leo Kottke uses C#, I think with 11s.

Bear in mind that according to the laws of physics, twice the number of strings on the guitar produces the same tension as increasing the gauge by a factor of 1.4 (the square root of 2), so a 12-string set of 10s has the same tension as a 6-string set of 14s. (Roughly, the wound string gauges might not be exact but it will be in that ballpark.) To get back to the same tension as a set of 12s - two gauges lighter - you need to drop the tuning by two semitones as a rough rule of thumb.

Mellish

Slight deviation, I know, but the 12-string player I was a fan of was the late Don Partridge...you know, "Rosie", "Going Back To London" etc  

sev112

Tannin said:

That's the best thing about this time of year (here I mean, not where you are): if I feel like playing at 6:20AM, I just step outside and have at it. Come the winter, that's not an option. Early morning playing, when the brain is clear and the fingers not yet tired out from manual work, is very often the best of all. But it is incompatible with marital bliss unless the weather lets me go outside to do it. 

Where is “here” for you @Tannin ?

Tannin

Tasmania, Sev, the Huon Valley in the far south, though I'll be in Western Victoria for the next few weeks. 

KevS

ICBM said:

KevS said:

It's just a cheapo Washburn D10 12 String from the early noughties,It sounds good is the thing..

It has gauge 10s on it..When you say a step down,do you mean Eflat or D..?

D. In the old days, the lightest strings that were made were about 11s or even 12s, so it was never intended that 12-strings would be tuned up to E - they were meant to be tuned to D, or even longer ago as low as C... in the 1930s and 40s Leadbelly's Stella 12s were tuned to C. Leo Kottke uses C#, I think with 11s.

Bear in mind that according to the laws of physics, twice the number of strings on the guitar produces the same tension as increasing the gauge by a factor of 1.4 (the square root of 2), so a 12-string set of 10s has the same tension as a 6-string set of 14s. (Roughly, the wound string gauges might not be exact but it will be in that ballpark.) To get back to the same tension as a set of 12s - two gauges lighter - you need to drop the tuning by two semitones as a rough rule of thumb.

I know that 12 string electric bodies are more robust,,but do you think an electric 12 could benefit the same from down tuning because of the neck still being vulnerable....??

fatherchewielewie

sev112 said:

Buy a few cheap digital hygrometers on Amazon etc and see what the humidity is like in your guitar room.

ive managed to reduce the humidity in mine by circa 20% recently and it has made a world of difference to tone and playability and action on my acoustics

And do the 'damp salt' calibration method:

https://www.neptunecigar.com/tips/how-to-calibrate-your-hygrometer

A 'wet' guitar is an easier problem to deal with than a 'dry' guitar i.e. one where the top shrinks and sinks; that shit will crack a top.

ToneControl

KevS said:

Much less than quarter of an inch..
I have a dehumidifier running as there was a problem and it has stabilised my electrics..
I keep my Acoustics in their cases..   

The 12 string is tiring on the hands,,I play a lot,my hands are strong enough for the rest of my guitars..
It may sound daft ,but my Les Pauls become unplayable if my hands become too strong,plus it can start to mess with my tendons..So maybe tuning it down is worth a try..

be  careful with the dehumidifier
Low humidity is the worst for acoustic guitars

Get  a £5 meter from amazon