Going IEM (again!)

grappagreen

Hi all,

I know this has been asked a number of times but could with some insight specifically on a couple of points.

We're a five piece covers band with gtrs, keys, vox and drums.

We're using an XR18 and looking to add a P16-D (cat 5 distribution), P16-M personal monitors, PM1 belt adaptors. We're not considering wireless as just too much of an investment.

Coupe of questions;

1. We don't currently mic up drums and bass given that we're using 10" Yam DZR's. I've read that ideally we would want these in the in-ears mix? We could mic/DI and just use in the monitor mixes.
2. What do we do about vibe with in-ears? Should we consider deploying some additional ambient mics to feed in?
3. Looking at in-ears ACS moulded seem nice and we don't want to skimp on this. We've spotted the Ambient range are vented. Could this get over challenges with #1 and #2 above?

Appreciate any insights..

Si

Musicwolf

Hi

XR18 / P16M user here

grappagreen said:

 We're not considering wireless as just too much of an investment.

Good start.  You need to pay big bucks just to get anywhere near the quality of a copper wire

1. We don't currently mic up drums and bass given that we're using 10" Yam DZR's. I've read that ideally we would want these in the in-ears mix? We could mic/DI and just use in the monitor mixes.

Yes, this is what I do.  I typically have a pair of overheads and a kick drum mic.  I use a pair simply because I'm also making live multitrack recordings at the same time.  You can get away with a kick (a boundary mic inside the kick works well) and a single overhead.  I find that the OH for HH and snare is more important to me but the bass player probably wants to hear more kick.

Just drop the faders on the FOH mix to zero (don't mute them) and push them up on the aux mixes as required.  If you are using P16Ms then you are not even taking up an aux mix.

2. What do we do about vibe with in-ears? Should we consider deploying some additional ambient mics to feed in?

Try without to begin with.  There's usually enough spill from the other mics and leakage through the in ears.  It does take a little getting used to but don't give up.

3. Looking at in-ears ACS moulded seem nice and we don't want to skimp on this. We've spotted the Ambient range are vented. Could this get over challenges with #1 and #2 above?

I have a pair of single driver ACS custom moulds but I've dropped them in favour of a pair of Shure 535s which I got on offer.  2 drivers won out over custom fit for me.

The key is getting used to in-ears and finding the mix that works for you.  You don't need everything in your mix or have a FOH sound, you want to hear the bits that are important for your performance.  For me the loudest thing in my ears are my backing vocals which are a relatively small part of the FOH mix.

If you can't hear something in the mix don't turn it up, think what else you can turn down.  The P16M really does make life so much easier when you are trying to play and mix at the same time.

grappagreen

@Musicwolf appreciate the post mate… dead useful 

Roland

Another XR18 user. 

1. You should be able to hear the bass without putting it in your IEMs. I don’t put any bass in my personal feed, even though it goes through the PA. I do however need plenty of drums for timing. The easy way to do this is to put a mic on the snare.
2. If you use an overhead mic for the cymbals it will also pick ambient room sound.
3. I started with Shure 215s. They were not fitted, so there was plenty of drums sneaking passed. However they kept falling out of my ears. When I looked for fitted IEMs (story here) I ended up with Cosmic Ears because the sound was better than ACS, which I use for plugs. I understand that ACS have since improved their drivers.

Whistler

Musicwolf said:

If you can't hear something in the mix don't turn it up, think what else you can turn down.

This is so important it bears repeating.

bob21

A couple of quick thoughts from me (I mix monitors for a living).. 

Ambient mics are a great source of noise.. that could be positive (aiding communication, crowd interaction etc) or negative (general washy stage noise, more cymbals for everyone etc). So should be treated very carefully! On big gigs - I use ambients a lot, highly processed, and my right hand constantly works the fader bringing the level up and down in the artists’ ears.
On a smaller stage, the vocals and overhead mics are generally enough to let plenty of noise in - so I’d try and get used to IEM without additional ambient mics. 

On custom in ears.. I would strongly recommend against ACS. The amount of artists I speak to with horror stories about ACS reliability is honestly shocking, and I don’t think they sound great when they are in working condition!! 

If you want to go custom, I’d strongly recommend Cosmic Ears.. Excellent quality, great reliability, and more importantly, great speedy service!!! I wouldn’t bother with single driver custom IEMs - start at dual, and try and push for triples if you can. CE3Ps will redefine your concept of what an IEM can do!!

grappagreen

Thanks @bob21 ;