I need help on how to play the intro of SCOM

Rocker

Try as I might, I simply cannot get the timing right on the intro of SCOM.  Most times I can hit the right notes in the right order, but it never sounds like it does on this video:



My problem is that I continually fail to get the timing right.  By timing, I mean the milliseconds between the notes.  Slash [and the band] make it swing and there is emphasis put on certain notes.  

So I need help from the many here who are more skilled on the guitar than I am.  Would someone please play it and record it, in standard tuning, and email the recording or make it available to me online.  PM please for my email address if that is your preferred method.

This piece is driving me nuts, so I would appreciate any help in learning to play it.  Before old age and arthritis makes it impossible for me to pick up a guitar.  Thanks in anticipation.

tone1

Are you tuned down 1/2 step? 

Lestratcaster

I'm currently doing this with a grade 5 candidate as part of the LCM (London College of Music) Rock Guitar exams.

What you must get right it the rhythm of the notes in the picking pattern, and sub-divide them correctly. Its all 8th notes so you're counting 1+2+3+4+ for every bar that has 4 beats. Alternate picking helps keep it smooth and even so on all the off-beats (the +'s) your pick stroke should be up. I don't think its swung either, just straight eighths.

BillDL

This guy does a pretty good job of it in standard tuning with close ups of his hands.  There are places where the timing isn't bang on, but there are also times when Slash's own timing wasn't bang on either:

Rocker

tone1 said:

Are you tuned down 1/2 step? 

No, standard tuning.  I did tune one of my guitars down ½ step but it simply did not sound right even if the strings were 100% accurately tuned.  I am not a 'position' player, I rely on my ear to know where the next note is.  My guitar sounds 'wrong' if it is not in standard tuning.

Rocker

Lestratcaster said:

I'm currently doing this with a grade 5 candidate as part of the LCM (London College of Music) Rock Guitar exams.

What you must get right it the rhythm of the notes in the picking pattern, and sub-divide them correctly. Its all 8th notes so you're counting 1+2+3+4+ for every bar that has 4 beats. Alternate picking helps keep it smooth and even so on all the off-beats (the +'s) your pick stroke should be up. I don't think its swung either, just straight eighths.

Thanks @Lestratcaster but my problem is that I am not a good rhythm player.  I came to guitar after a long spell playing trad Irish music on an accordion.  I have tried to learn the 1+2+3+4 thing but my strumming hand refuses to operate in that way.  If someone plays and records it, sends me this recording, I can loop it in Audacity and learn it properly.  The same way I learned reels and jigs except in those days it was from a tape recording or an LP record.

I might have the wrong idea of what swing is, but I can clearly hear emphasis put on certain notes.  This emphasis might be from the drums or bass but a pattern exists, or I hear one anyway, and I cannot get that pattern into my head.

To give you an example of what I mean, years ago I simply could not 'get' the rhythm right on 'Wish You Were Here' by Pink Floyd.  Despite dozens of listens to the original, I did not get it until I mentioned this to a music teacher [sadly gone back to Australia before the lockdown] who picked up a guitar and played it for me.  At that moment I got it.  So I am hoping for a similar experience with SCOM.  If you and I were in the same room, I have no doubt you would show me in a few minutes how it should be played.  Sadly that is unlikely to happen, hence my request for the next best thing which is a recording of the intro played as it should be played.

Switch625

I like referring to Mr Tabs on YouTube when learning a song. You can slow it down to a tempo you’re comfortable with and play along, then speed it up when you have the notes down accurately. 

CaseOfAce

The major thing everybody misses on this intro is that if you watch Slash play it - he doesn't lift off the first finger when it plays the G string 12th fret G note - he holds that note whilst the other fingers lift off. It sounds like a minor detail but it does matter to the sound of the riff.

BillDL

You will see how Slash plays it at 0:36 in the video:

Lestratcaster

Rocker said:

Lestratcaster said:

I'm currently doing this with a grade 5 candidate as part of the LCM (London College of Music) Rock Guitar exams.

What you must get right it the rhythm of the notes in the picking pattern, and sub-divide them correctly. Its all 8th notes so you're counting 1+2+3+4+ for every bar that has 4 beats. Alternate picking helps keep it smooth and even so on all the off-beats (the +'s) your pick stroke should be up. I don't think its swung either, just straight eighths.

Thanks @Lestratcaster but my problem is that I am not a good rhythm player.  I came to guitar after a long spell playing trad Irish music on an accordion.  I have tried to learn the 1+2+3+4 thing but my strumming hand refuses to operate in that way.  If someone plays and records it, sends me this recording, I can loop it in Audacity and learn it properly.  The same way I learned reels and jigs except in those days it was from a tape recording or an LP record.

I might have the wrong idea of what swing is, but I can clearly hear emphasis put on certain notes.  This emphasis might be from the drums or bass but a pattern exists, or I hear one anyway, and I cannot get that pattern into my head.

To give you an example of what I mean, years ago I simply could not 'get' the rhythm right on 'Wish You Were Here' by Pink Floyd.  Despite dozens of listens to the original, I did not get it until I mentioned this to a music teacher [sadly gone back to Australia before the lockdown] who picked up a guitar and played it for me.  At that moment I got it.  So I am hoping for a similar experience with SCOM.  If you and I were in the same room, I have no doubt you would show me in a few minutes how it should be played.  Sadly that is unlikely to happen, hence my request for the next best thing which is a recording of the intro played as it should be played.

Did you know that 90% of guitar playing will consist of rhythm? Even lead playing must have good rhythm! This is really important to know what to play, within a certain framework. There's several videos the guys have posted on here where you can see the picking directions and rhythm. But yeah if you can hear the part you can play it. Eighth notes are 2 per beat with a metronome. To play riffs correctly the rhythm has to be right first.

Swing is often used in blues music amongst others, the first note is longer, if you say "humpty-dumpty" it kinda matches the rhythm. If you listen to the notes of the SCOM riff its more straight as they're even in length.

I do teach online so if you need visual help let me know. 

Rocker

Thanks guys, I will give the videos a good going over.  If I am still in trouble, I will get back to you @Lestratcaster

CaseOfAce

Seeing Slash perform it note for note on an ACOUSTIC made me realise ..oh yeah ... why am I sweating it about doing the same thing on an electric...
Even that fast harmonic minor run he does up the neck..

PolarityMan

note for note? I mean that's a good performance (certainly better than i could paly)  but there's still  a fair few flubs in it. 

Devil#20

It sounds like "Tales from the Riverbank" when it's played on acoustic.   

CaseOfAce

... and this is how he does it live these days..
Few things I learnt watching it I didn't know..

He's one the neck pickup for the first half of the song (bridge for second).
He's using the neck volume control for rhythm vs. solo
He doesn't use a pick for the fills in the song ?!
He's using the 'D' shape for the D, C and G chords... before using open positions...
He's already on the wah for the first proper solo... 
and err.. Axl's voice is shot these days, Slash is looking well old... and you can't hear the keyboards whatsoever ... 

Mickeyji

Sorry, couldn't resist...

Mickeyji

                          The Heimatdamisch: Sweet Child o' Mine (Guns n' Roses)           

Inserting videos here is a challenge...

BillDL

The guy on the trumpet seems to have pissed down the left leg of his lederhosen.. You can see it clearly at the 0:29 mark.