Nylon parlour

elkay

I've been gassing for a nylon-strung parlour, but as yet not been able to try out any. The Cordoba C9 and C10 parlours look quite interesting. Anyone had any experience of these, or similar? I'm not really interested in full scale classicals.

GTC

Hi

I've had a Cordoba C10 (full size). Nice competent guitar but it didn't blow me away.

What are the main things you are looking for in a parlour as opposed to full-size classicals, Smaller body, shorter scale length fretboard (than the standard classical 650mm), narrower nut width (than standard 52mm), slightly radiused as opposed to standard flat classical fretboard?

The are a lot of options out there depending on what you are looking for.

I was lucky enough to pick up a professionally repaired Kenny Hill Torres replica from his US-made Masters series for £1.6k. (Price new £7k). Smaller parlour body, 640mm scale length and 50mm nut width. Wonderful guitar!

elkay

GTC said:

Hi

I've had a Cordoba C10 (full size). Nice competent guitar but it didn't blow me away.

What are the main things you are looking for in a parlour as opposed to full-size classicals, Smaller body, shorter scale length fretboard (than the standard classical 650mm), narrower nut width (than standard 52mm), slightly radiused as opposed to standard flat classical fretboard?

The are a lot of options out there depending on what you are looking for.

I was lucky enough to pick up a professionally repaired Kenny Hill Torres replica from his US-made Masters series for £1.6k. (Price new £7k). Smaller parlour body, 640mm scale length and 50mm nut width. Wonderful guitar!

Wow! Now why can't I find bargains like that?

What I'm after is a small-bodied short scale guitar, preferably with a low profile slimmer neck, which I would be comfortable with as a chuck-about guitar for noodling on the sofa, or anywhere else for that matter. I have been tending to carelessly treat my 000-18 this way, but a recent near disaster, through which the Martin thankfully survived unscathed, has shaken me up a bit. The choice of nylon-strung is just for a different flavour, as all my other guitars are steel-strung. Your comment about the Cordoba C10 being 'competent' but not blowing you away is interesting, as this was the impression I got from Youtube. That has got me decided that a grand is probably not worth paying for new. Perhaps if a used one came up at a reasonable price I might consider it, otherwise the search goes on, who knows, there might be another Kenny Hill bargain just around the corner.

viz

I have an alvarez rc20sc and an ibanez ae450. Both under 200 second hand, I love them both. 

elkay

viz said:

I have an alvarez rc20sc and an ibanez ae450. Both under 200 second hand, I love them both. 

These don't seem to be available any more, but I certainly will consider the current Alvarez and Ibanez ranges, thanks.

GTC

Came across this the other day online from GAK - Paul Brett Vintage VTR800VC Viator.

Solid spruce top, sapele back and sides, nylon strings, flat fretboard, 48mm nut width, 21.5" scale length (about the same as playing a full 25.6" scale guitar with a capo on the 3rd fret) and a small body (14 frets from nut to body) - for £149 NEW!!

After seeing a Paul Brett demo on YouTube I was so curious I ordered one - and it arrived today (there are more in stock).

I can't give a full opinion until I've changed the strings round to left-handed. There is no compensation angle on the bridge saddle slot  to worry about so all I need to do is change the saddle round and make a few adjustments at the nut.

The finish is understandably very basic but the build quality seems pretty good. It comes with a very nice padded gig bag. The neck has a truss rod. 

Looking forward to trying it with some decent strings. 

elkay

GTC said:

Came across this the other day online from GAK - Paul Brett Vintage VTR800VC Viator.

Solid spruce top, sapele back and sides, nylon strings, flat fretboard, 48mm nut width, 21.5" scale length (about the same as playing a full 25.6" scale guitar with a capo on the 3rd fret) and a small body (14 frets from nut to body) - for £149 NEW!!

After seeing a Paul Brett demo on YouTube I was so curious I ordered one - and it arrived today (there are more in stock).

I can't give a full opinion until I've changed the strings round to left-handed. There is no compensation angle on the bridge saddle slot  to worry about so all I need to do is change the saddle round and make a few adjustments at the nut.

The finish is understandably very basic but the build quality seems pretty good. It comes with a very nice padded gig bag. The neck has a truss rod. 

Looking forward to trying it with some decent strings. 

I checked these out on Youtube, and they seemed to me to be somewhat toy-like and boxy sounding. Are you sure these are nylon strung? All the ones I've seen, including those at GAK, are steel-strung. Thanks for the input anyway.

Tannin

(None of what follows will be of any direct help, but may raise useful questions. Or may not.)

I've never quite understood parlour guitars. I've only played a handful of instruments that size, and none of them was worth picking up a second time. I should have made the effort to try others out and to get to know a nice one, I suppose, but first impressions have stuck and I don't even think about trying them out anymore, just assume that they will be awful and walk on past. 

I know that can't be entirely true because there are people I respect who like them. There must be good ones out there. I suspect that it boils down to this oversimplified rule: any fool can make a half-decent dreadnought; any competent maker can make a good grand auditorium; it takes skill to get a good result in a concert size; and genius to succeed with a parlour. 

That's a big generalisation to make on slim evidence, but let's throw in the modern rash of "baby" guitars, which are shaped more like a standard steel string but have the size of a parlour. Again, I've only played a handful, and again they were all pretty awful except for a baby Taylor which was nothing special but at least a lot better than I expected.

So, pending further evidence, I'm led to the view that small guitars are mostly not worth tuppence. The term "thin and boxy" was probably invented especially for them. There must be some good ones somewhere, but they seem to be very rare. 

Anyway, if I was looking for something nice with nylon strings, I'd go directly to a standard size classical (or flamenco, or crossover, whatever - but in the standard size). It's not as if an ordinary classical guitar is difficult to get your arm around or play on the sofa, it's nothing like a big dreadnought, let alone a jumbo. Given that it seems to be very hard to make a nice parlour, wouldn't it be reasonable to expect, for the same money, a better quality instrument in the standard size?

GTC

elkay said:

I checked these out on Youtube, and they seemed to me to be somewhat toy-like and boxy sounding. Are you sure these are nylon strung? All the ones I've seen, including those at GAK, are steel-strung. Thanks for the input anyway.

This model is most definitely nylon-strung despite the bridge pins - here's the GAK link https://www.gak.co.uk/en/vintage-vtr800vc-viator-paul-brett-natural/936262

The sound when played right-handed seemed surprisingly full but the jury is out until I give it a full run-through when it has been restrung left-handed. At just £149 I was intrigued so I thought it was worth a punt.

Here's a link to the Paul Brett video of this particular model : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Edg_AHibYxE

Zoonyboy

In case you are interested I have a small all-mahogany guitar, hand made a few years ago by the now-retired Kevin Parsons. He made some great guitars. It is nylon strung, for people who do not like classical guitars, has a curved board with a narrower nut, and feels just like a steel strung guitar in profile. Sounds ace. No pickup, no strap buttons. I posted it here a year or two ago FS, but then decided to keep it. I never play it much and would let it go if interested. Can PM for photos, etc. GL otherwise!

allen

https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/166248/wtb-nylon-string-crossover-with-24-75-scale-length

I ended up buying a LTD nylon crossover. Which is nice, but not perfect.

drofluf

GTC said:

elkay said:

I checked these out on Youtube, and they seemed to me to be somewhat toy-like and boxy sounding. Are you sure these are nylon strung? All the ones I've seen, including those at GAK, are steel-strung. Thanks for the input anyway.

This model is most definitely nylon-strung despite the bridge pins - here's the GAK link https://www.gak.co.uk/en/vintage-vtr800vc-viator-paul-brett-natural/936262

The sound when played right-handed seemed surprisingly full but the jury is out until I give it a full run-through when it has been restrung left-handed. At just £149 I was intrigued so I thought it was worth a punt.

Here's a link to the Paul Brett video of this particular model : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Edg_AHibYxE

For what it’s worth I’ve been very impressed with my Vintage Paul Brett 12 string: it’s parlour sized but great sounding, not at all boxy. 

GTC

drofluf said:

For what it’s worth I’ve been very impressed with my Vintage Paul Brett 12 string: it’s parlour sized but great sounding, not at all boxy. 

Well - I've switched the strings round to left-handed using an old set of Savarez Cantiga strings (high tension for the short scale) I had lying around. I must say it is incredible value. There is a bit of set-up work to be done still - like with many new guitars, lowering the string height at the nut slots - and I think the truss rod needs adjusting to provide a just little more neck relief.

Apart from that, it plays and sounds great, punching far above its weight in price.

Does it sound "thin and boxy"? The term parlour guitar comes from the original intention of playing them in a parlour or living room for the amusement of yourself or a small group. What some people call thin and boxy ,others might call "reserved and refined". Personally, I find many large bodied guitars unbalanced and boomy. It depends on what you want.

I'd like to try it with fluorocarbon trebles which I think would work well - although the sound is pretty nicely balanced as it is.