midi Keyboard/Ipad for gigs?

thomasw88

So I'm mainly a guitar player.  I do play piano and have a good stage keyboard (Yamaha YC73).  It is however quite large and at the moment doesn't warrant taking out to gigs.  I've got a few things on the go where I could take a keyboard along and use it for the odd song here and there.   I'm thinking also that in the house, it would be useful to have a keyboard I could just wahck on my desk and hook up to the pc or ipad.

I do have an Ipad and the camera conneciton kit and started downloading a few music making apps/vst's on it.  


Is it realistic to use an ipad and a 61 key midi board for gigs?   As I mentioned it's not for major keyboarding but something I can use in a few songs.

If so any recommendations on what keyboard to get (don't want to spend oodles of cash so around £250-£300 tops really, although cheaper would better)

Also what good apps are people using on the ipad with midi keyboards?  particularly interested in good pianos/organs/ plus synths.  
Good DAWS as well?  With a good range of instruments would be great.

jackio

Hi. Do you want this keyboard to make its own sounds and control iPad/daw via midi?
or just a silent keyboard (controller) for iPad/daw?
happy to help, I’ve got some experience

Stratavarious

I tried the iPad at gig thing early on…Frustrating.  lots of wires if you want to keep power. Risk of connection loss with Bluetooth. You need to set it to not switch off as unlocking just before a song starts grinds.

Got a Roland Juno DS61 and was blown away by value for the price. Great sounds, favorites, manual controls, light as anything, sample pads which are great for special fx, and a vocoder even.  Bit out of budget.. but so much better than adding a silent keyboard to an ipad.  Set up and go.

i use Garageband, Auria Pro and a few other Korg synth apps on my iPads with it via midi for recording. At gigs the iPads fo the digital mixer remote now.

Korg have the best synth apps imo.  Not cheap if you expand them but top quality.  So you may end up spending same as a standalone synth/keyboard.  Garageband is pretty packed with good stuff for free and Bandlab is def.worth checking out. App and browser on PC/Mac

monquixote

If you already have a MIDI keyboard you can just get a desktop synth module. An inexpensive and well rated unit would be the IK Uno Pro Desktop.

That's mostly analog type sounds.

Another option would be the Roland MC-101 Groovebox. Though it's a groovebox you can control it with MIDI like a synth and it's got the Roland Zencore which is the latest synth engine.

thomasw88

jackio said:

Hi. Do you want this keyboard to make its own sounds and control iPad/daw via midi?
or just a silent keyboard (controller) for iPad/daw?
happy to help, I’ve got some experience

I don't know..    basically in my simple brain, I would hook up the ipad to the usb port of the keyboard, and then take the output from the keyboard to desk.  Hence not needing alot of wires. 

Although actually that  doesn't make much sense as  the sound would need to come out from the ipad? so would need a bluetooth connection or similar I guess.. 

hmm maybe this is a bad idea.

jackio

It may not be a bad idea. That said, I've tried all sorts, wires, apps, controllers, and just keep on coming back to the simplicity (wiring-wise) of a synth. There are loads around now that, especially second hand, are portable and great.

Yamaha reface
Behringer Deepmind 6
Korg Opsix (I have, love it) and the others in that series, mod wave and something else.

All of these can control via midi too (just check the Refaces) so if you do want to hook up to iPad you can.

Look out for the size of keys (reface is small keys, just fine but you may not want that)

jackio

BTW the answer to your question "is it realistic to use a 61 note keyboard and an iPad for gigs' the answer is yes. The keys connect via midi to usb in, and sound comes out of the iPad (DAW, VST's) just the same as it would do a computer...

CaseOfAce

Damn.. I wish there was a smaller version of that Roland 61 key synth with less functionality I could just cram into a gig bag and use for very occasional use live.

Danny1969

Mainstage software for the Mac is ridiculously cheap, about £26 and the sounds will rival a 2K workstation. It needs a Mac though, older Macbook like a  unibody is ok though and you can get one for around £200 2nd hand. 

I was using this setup with a £50 midi keyboard for the last 20 gigs or so. I went out and brought a Korg i3 and will be gigging that from now on but have to say, the sounds aren't as good a Mainstage 

thomasw88

Danny1969 said:

Mainstage software for the Mac is ridiculously cheap, about £26 and the sounds will rival a 2K workstation. It needs a Mac though, older Macbook like a  unibody is ok though and you can get one for around £200 2nd hand. 

I was using this setup with a £50 midi keyboard for the last 20 gigs or so. I went out and brought a Korg i3 and will be gigging that from now on but have to say, the sounds aren't as good a Mainstage 

That's a possibility but I've always been a Windows user, and we have about 4 windows 10 laptops in the house so getting another laptop seems a bit unnecessary.  I Spose I could hook up a midi keyboard to  a laptop but an iPad seems a bit easier...

thomasw88

jackio said:

It may not be a bad idea. That said, I've tried all sorts, wires, apps, controllers, and just keep on coming back to the simplicity (wiring-wise) of a synth. There are loads around now that, especially second hand, are portable and great.

Yamaha reface
Behringer Deepmind 6
Korg Opsix (I have, love it) and the others in that series, mod wave and something else.

All of these can control via midi too (just check the Refaces) so if you do want to hook up to iPad you can.

Look out for the size of keys (reface is small keys, just fine but you may not want that)

The problem is I want something that is a decent workstation rather than just a synth.  I'd like to have access to piano/organs/ strings as well.. in a compact 61 key (piano feel) action..

Danny1969

thomasw88 said:

Danny1969 said:

Mainstage software for the Mac is ridiculously cheap, about £26 and the sounds will rival a 2K workstation. It needs a Mac though, older Macbook like a  unibody is ok though and you can get one for around £200 2nd hand. 

I was using this setup with a £50 midi keyboard for the last 20 gigs or so. I went out and brought a Korg i3 and will be gigging that from now on but have to say, the sounds aren't as good a Mainstage 

That's a possibility but I've always been a Windows user, and we have about 4 windows 10 laptops in the house so getting another laptop seems a bit unnecessary.  I Spose I could hook up a midi keyboard to  a laptop but an iPad seems a bit easier...

Well you don't need to get into using a Mac, just ignore everything Apple wise apart from Mainstage, there's literally nothing in the Windows world for £26 that will a make a cheap £50 midi keyboard sound like a 2K workstation .... you can use the iPad as a remote for it as well 

thomasw88

Danny1969 said:

thomasw88 said:

Danny1969 said:

Mainstage software for the Mac is ridiculously cheap, about £26 and the sounds will rival a 2K workstation. It needs a Mac though, older Macbook like a  unibody is ok though and you can get one for around £200 2nd hand. 

I was using this setup with a £50 midi keyboard for the last 20 gigs or so. I went out and brought a Korg i3 and will be gigging that from now on but have to say, the sounds aren't as good a Mainstage 

That's a possibility but I've always been a Windows user, and we have about 4 windows 10 laptops in the house so getting another laptop seems a bit unnecessary.  I Spose I could hook up a midi keyboard to  a laptop but an iPad seems a bit easier...

Well you don't need to get into using a Mac, just ignore everything Apple wise apart from Mainstage, there's literally nothing in the Windows world for £26 that will a make a cheap £50 midi keyboard sound like a 2K workstation .... you can use the iPad as a remote for it as well 

That’s a fair point, and worth a ponder. I know nothing about macs tbh so what kind of generation/ year are we talking here.?

Stratavarious

thomasw88 said:

jackio said:

It may not be a bad idea. That said, I've tried all sorts, wires, apps, controllers, and just keep on coming back to the simplicity (wiring-wise) of a synth. There are loads around now that, especially second hand, are portable and great.

Yamaha reface
Behringer Deepmind 6
Korg Opsix (I have, love it) and the others in that series, mod wave and something else.

All of these can control via midi too (just check the Refaces) so if you do want to hook up to iPad you can.

Look out for the size of keys (reface is small keys, just fine but you may not want that)

The problem is I want something that is a decent workstation rather than just a synth.  I'd like to have access to piano/organs/ strings as well.. in a compact 61 key (piano feel) action..

My DS and the Yamaha MX got all the pianos, strings, organs snd synth sounds you could ever want. They are gigging machines without Nord type cost.   Sequencer, drums, arpeggiator (on the DS).   

Once you get to weighted action, the portability becomes an issue. I can pick up my Roland DS with a couple of fingers.  My fully weighted master keyboard broke its stand it was so heavy.

Stratavarious

CaseOfAce said:

Damn.. I wish there was a smaller version of that Roland 61 key synth with less functionality I could just cram into a gig bag and use for very occasional use live.

Yamaha MX49?

https://uk.yamaha.com/en/products/music_production/synthesizers/mx_bk_bu/index.html

thomasw88

anyone tried the Samson Carbon 61?   Main advantage is that is has a slot for the ipad to slot into (still need camera connection kit though).  Would just mean less clutter...

goldtop

Stratavarious said:

thomasw88 said:

jackio said:

It may not be a bad idea. That said, I've tried all sorts, wires, apps, controllers, and just keep on coming back to the simplicity (wiring-wise) of a synth. There are loads around now that, especially second hand, are portable and great.

Yamaha reface
Behringer Deepmind 6
Korg Opsix (I have, love it) and the others in that series, mod wave and something else.

All of these can control via midi too (just check the Refaces) so if you do want to hook up to iPad you can.

Look out for the size of keys (reface is small keys, just fine but you may not want that)

The problem is I want something that is a decent workstation rather than just a synth.  I'd like to have access to piano/organs/ strings as well.. in a compact 61 key (piano feel) action..

My DS and the Yamaha MX got all the pianos, strings, organs snd synth sounds you could ever want. They are gigging machines without Nord type cost.   Sequencer, drums, arpeggiator (on the DS).   

Once you get to weighted action, the portability becomes an issue. I can pick up my Roland DS with a couple of fingers.  My fully weighted master keyboard broke its stand it was so heavy.

This. Both are full-fat workstation engines in a lightweight package. Alternatively, a MIDI keyboard and (say) an MC-101 used purely as a module would also get you there. (And it'd be quite a bit of fun if you ever did want some groovebox fun.) See here: https://www.roland.com/uk/products/mc-101/

As much as I love iPads for music-making, relying on one at a gig...? Not sure. But for iPad ROMpling, there's Pure Synth Platinum (£18). IIRC it was designed specifically for the US gospel crowd and is packed with organs, keys, pianos and whatever tones you need for bothering God digitally.

thomasw88

Stratavarious said:

thomasw88 said:

jackio said:

It may not be a bad idea. That said, I've tried all sorts, wires, apps, controllers, and just keep on coming back to the simplicity (wiring-wise) of a synth. There are loads around now that, especially second hand, are portable and great.

Yamaha reface
Behringer Deepmind 6
Korg Opsix (I have, love it) and the others in that series, mod wave and something else.

All of these can control via midi too (just check the Refaces) so if you do want to hook up to iPad you can.

Look out for the size of keys (reface is small keys, just fine but you may not want that)

The problem is I want something that is a decent workstation rather than just a synth.  I'd like to have access to piano/organs/ strings as well.. in a compact 61 key (piano feel) action..

My DS and the Yamaha MX got all the pianos, strings, organs snd synth sounds you could ever want. They are gigging machines without Nord type cost.   Sequencer, drums, arpeggiator (on the DS).   

Once you get to weighted action, the portability becomes an issue. I can pick up my Roland DS with a couple of fingers.  My fully weighted master keyboard broke its stand it was so heavy.

I have a yamaha YC73 which is superb.  That would be used for any serious amount of playing, I'm looking for something more for rehearsing/ odd live song here and there for gigs.  Not sure I want to go to that amount of outlay for this tbh.      

thomasw88

I went for a Komplete kontrol A61 in the end.   Comes with a lot of software and I can use it  on my desktop anyway for home recording.  Will fart around with the ipad thing as well and see if that is usable, if not may look at getting an oldish Macbook at some point.


Thanks for all the advice chaps.

menamestom

I went through similar recently but having the newer ipad with USB C makes it even more difficult because there's no headphone out.  You need Midi in and Audio out via a dongle or Audio/Midi interface.  Should be fairly simple with the older ipad with camera connection kit, using the phones out for audio.

The YC73 looks ace btw.

mike257

thomasw88 said:

jackio said:

Hi. Do you want this keyboard to make its own sounds and control iPad/daw via midi?
or just a silent keyboard (controller) for iPad/daw?
happy to help, I’ve got some experience

I don't know..    basically in my simple brain, I would hook up the ipad to the usb port of the keyboard, and then take the output from the keyboard to desk.  Hence not needing alot of wires. 

Although actually that  doesn't make much sense as  the sound would need to come out from the ipad? so would need a bluetooth connection or similar I guess.. 

hmm maybe this is a bad idea.

Loads of useful advice here from other folks, but one thing that does scream "bad idea" is talk of using Bluetooth in a live rig.  Bluetooth has inherent latency that makes no difference to your experience if you're just listening to something played back, but if you're actually pressing a key and there's an audible delay before the note comes out the other end, it's not going to be a fun experience on stage for anyone!