Players Grade 1973 Fender Stratocaster - Refurb to Resell advice .

WBT2079

Th back of the necks and headstock are poly, but my understanding is that the front of the headstock was still nitro as fender couldn’t get the poly to work with the decals, that’s why there is normally such a difference in the aged colour between the front and back.

musicalstash

WBT2079 said:

musicalstash said:

ICBM said:

musicalstash said:

Sorry took the readings again, the two in the guitar are 5.4k while the usa one 5.7k. 

Yes, those are more what I would expect. I think they'll balance pretty well.

guitars4you said:

5.4K is about right for a late 60's early 70's era 

I think there's a reasonable chance those two pickups are original, although of course it can't be proved. They're certainly the right type.

Yes I think you are right,  they look identical to the one Eddie Vegas pulls out of 72 / 73 strats. 

The neck serial number dates it to 74 but the 8 digit neck stamp dates it to 73   - 09013993, is this common? 

The knobs I found were import size so will get a set of aged Fender ones ordered. 

Looking at that neck stamp, it would suggest the neck is dated 1979, but then I would expect to see a serial number on the head stock. Fender changed to the 8 number system in about 72/73.  Are there any other 4 digit codes stamped on the back of the heal, and is there a 4 digit code stamped on the body in the neck pocket or under the pickguard?

09 = strat,  01 = rosewood,  39 = week, 9 = 79, 3 = Wednesday 

Th serial numbers are not read that way on the early seventies strats,  the 8 digit number stamps are  normally the 5th or last number, 8 don't think they stamped the neck this way in the late 70s . 

p90fool

WBT2079 said:

Th back of the necks and headstock are poly, but my understanding is that the front of the headstock was still nitro as fender couldn’t get the poly to work with the decals, that’s why there is normally such a difference in the aged colour between the front and back.

I know, which is why I was asking about this particular guitar. If it's a nitro headstock face then it can't be a 79. 

guitars4you

musicalstash said:

WBT2079 said:

musicalstash said:

ICBM said:

musicalstash said:

Sorry took the readings again, the two in the guitar are 5.4k while the usa one 5.7k. 

Yes, those are more what I would expect. I think they'll balance pretty well.

guitars4you said:

5.4K is about right for a late 60's early 70's era 

I think there's a reasonable chance those two pickups are original, although of course it can't be proved. They're certainly the right type.

Yes I think you are right,  they look identical to the one Eddie Vegas pulls out of 72 / 73 strats. 

The neck serial number dates it to 74 but the 8 digit neck stamp dates it to 73   - 09013993, is this common? 

The knobs I found were import size so will get a set of aged Fender ones ordered. 

Looking at that neck stamp, it would suggest the neck is dated 1979, but then I would expect to see a serial number on the head stock. Fender changed to the 8 number system in about 72/73.  Are there any other 4 digit codes stamped on the back of the heal, and is there a 4 digit code stamped on the body in the neck pocket or under the pickguard?

09 = strat,  01 = rosewood,  39 = week, 9 = 79, 3 = Wednesday 

Th serial numbers are not read that way on the early seventies strats,  the 8 digit number stamps are  normally the 5th or last number, 8 don't think they stamped the neck this way in the late 70s . 

The neck date systems have changed in the 70's - Are you 100% sure of those numbers (09013993) - Many times I've seen them smudged so either hard to read and/or miss read a number - Plus assume the numbers are not grouped together - Normally gaps - It is also common to have the odd number that doesn't stack up - This is mentioned on a few detailed sites

But as for a 74 serial number plate and a 73 neck date - Such matters are very common throughout the whole 50's, 60's and 70's - You have to remember Fender did not build guitars, they made parts and these parts were dated, accordingly as they went on - Parts were then placed in a bin (pots, serial number plates etc) or placed on shelves (bodies/necks) - Then at the end of the factory some one would take parts from storage and assemble the guitar - But parts were never placed in storage like supermarket vegetables, whereby you keep the oldest at the front - So common to find parts for a guitar that can read 2/3 different dates 

In such an instance it is accepted + safe to assume that the youngest date, on any part, that you find on the guitar is the date - ie if you have a neck date 72, pick up dates 73, serial number 74 and pot dates 74, then the guitar can't possibly be 72 or 73 - Obviously assuming all parts are original for this example - We might wish each guitar to be older but the reality is that the youngest part(s) are in reality the date of the guitar - So based on your 74 serial number then safe bet to assume the Strat is a 74 

ICBM

guitars4you said:

In such an instance it is accepted + safe to assume that the youngest date, on any part, that you find on the guitar is the date - ie if you have a neck date 72, pick up dates 73, serial number 74 and pot dates 74, then the guitar can't possibly be 72 or 73 - Obviously assuming all parts are original for this example - We might wish each guitar to be older but the reality is that the youngest part(s) are in reality the date of the guitar - So based on your 74 serial number then safe bet to assume the Strat is a 74 

I would agree, except that the serial numbers on the neck plates are the least accurate of all, and can be found in both the year before and the year after the commonly accepted ‘year’ - that changed when they went to the dated decals which only - as far as I know! - indicate the year they’re meant to (eg S8 = 1978) or later, until the decals were used up.

I wouldn’t be at all surprised to find a “74” serial number plate on a guitar with a 73 neck date, staggered-pole pickups and which did leave the factory in later 1973. If any of the pots are original it would help set a ‘not before’ date.

That said, I find the obsession with knowing the exact year date of musical equipment a bit ridiculous when it’s taken to extremes on things where it doesn’t really matter - in the shop, literally the first thing almost all buyers want to know about something, whether it’s a modern guitar or even an old cheap multi-FX pedal, is “what year is it?”.

musicalstash

Here a picture of the serial number  . I am pretty sure the two pickups are original to the guitar , I received an message from a collector in Italy who said due to the staggered polepiece and lack of stamp  date to  69-73   . 

WBT2079

That looks much better I would say the last 4 digits are 3953 which would be a 75

guitars4you

musicalstash said:

Here a picture of the serial number  . I am pretty sure the two pickups are original to the guitar , I received an message from a collector in Italy who said due to the staggered polepiece and lack of stamp  date to  69-73   . 

That clears up the confusion - earlier you mentioned 09013993 - It is 09013953 - which now indicates a 75 neck date 

With the guitar not being all original, hard to say it it has had a neck change or not  - As @ICBM indicates above I would not get worked up about it as not un-common for a Fender to have part dates  that are 12-24 months apart - Late 60's even more so 

No one thought anything of it at the time - But I know from my days in the 70's that you might have in stock 2 Strats - one with a maple board and a black finish and one r/wood board say natural finish - Customer would want to buy a black Strat with a rosewood board so you'd exchange necks - simple as - And I know it happened loads in many stores - Shops had far less stock then - If you had 10 Strats on the wall back in the 70's it was a good selection - As such you never had enough stock to cover all options regarding with/without trem, r/wood/maple and colours - And no one ever talked about that changing necks might cause issues on forums 40 years later, or indeed asking questions about it not being factory original 

But IMO that now dates your neck as 75 and as such puts a date, based on other info, as 75 on your Strat 

guitars4you

ICBM said:

guitars4you said:

In such an instance it is accepted + safe to assume that the youngest date, on any part, that you find on the guitar is the date - ie if you have a neck date 72, pick up dates 73, serial number 74 and pot dates 74, then the guitar can't possibly be 72 or 73 - Obviously assuming all parts are original for this example - We might wish each guitar to be older but the reality is that the youngest part(s) are in reality the date of the guitar - So based on your 74 serial number then safe bet to assume the Strat is a 74 

I would agree, except that the serial numbers on the neck plates are the least accurate of all, and can be found in both the year before and the year after the commonly accepted ‘year’ - that changed when they went to the dated decals which only - as far as I know! - indicate the year they’re meant to (eg S8 = 1978) or later, until the decals were used up.

I wouldn’t be at all surprised to find a “74” serial number plate on a guitar with a 73 neck date, staggered-pole pickups and which did leave the factory in later 1973. If any of the pots are original it would help set a ‘not before’ date.

That said, I find the obsession with knowing the exact year date of musical equipment a bit ridiculous when it’s taken to extremes on things where it doesn’t really matter - in the shop, literally the first thing almost all buyers want to know about something, whether it’s a modern guitar or even an old cheap multi-FX pedal, is “what year is it?”.

agree and see my comment above about neck exchanges on new stock in the dealers - With this Strat not having many original features, then harder to determine how it left the factory - My gut feeling is to still sell it as a players grade mid 70's Strat and price accordingly - Plus allows for any additional changes to enhance the performance, be it new p/ups, better wiring loom and even a better trem - The heart of the guitar (body/neck) is still a mid 70's Strat with some old school mojo/character  

I would not encourage breaking it down into parts, as none of the parts are exactly premium sought-after 

Hurling_Fruitmig

DrumBob said:

My best friend bought a 73 Strat new, and it's one of the worst guitars I ever played. He had to have major work done on it years ago to make it playable. He's amazed at how mu8ch it's worth these days. I think he paid around $275 for it. 

According to the web that's the equivalent of approximately $1,800 so not far off the going rate for a US Strat.

TheBigDipper

FWIW, my '74 Strat has the flat pole piece pickups (I bought it in 1979), so potentially the neck is from a younger guitar or the staggered pickups from an older one. Either way, a nice '70s Strat is what it is. 

Edit- the pole pieces on this one are staggered, yes? 

guitars4you

TheBigDipper said:

FWIW, my '74 Strat has the flat pole piece pickups (I bought it in 1979), so potentially the neck is from a younger guitar or the staggered pickups from an older one. Either way, a nice '70s Strat is what it is. 

Edit- the pole pieces on this one are staggered, yes? 

Yes staggered, but as with many Fender Guitars, you have that cross over/transition period - Even in the mid 70's when they went from white plastic parts (knobs/scratch-plates etc) there was a period of 1/2 1/2 as they still had old stock to use up - So it is not uncommon to see staggered polepiece pick-ups on 74 and maybe even 75 models

ICBM

guitars4you said:

But IMO that now dates your neck as 75 and as such puts a date, based on other info, as 75 on your Strat 

And interestingly, that means the knobs could be original .

guitars4you

ICBM said:

guitars4you said:

But IMO that now dates your neck as 75 and as such puts a date, based on other info, as 75 on your Strat 

And interestingly, that means the knobs could be original .

maybe so - transition period strikes again

musicalstash

Got around to sorting the strat out ,  tried to age the knobs and bridge pickup cover to match the rest of the guitar but not perfect especially the magnets in the bridge pickup which standout a bit.

Finally can get it up for sale so get some funds in . 

Thanks for all the advice