Interesting post from Jay Postones, drummer of TesseracT, relating to being a musician these days

mrkb

axisus said:

fastonebaz said:

I can't be the only one that was halfway through the post still thinking

" wow I didn't realise @axisus was the drummer in tesseract "

I thought the giveaway was naming the drummer in the post title personally, but I guess I credit too much intelligence to the readership around here!

I was expecting “ “ around the bit you were copying/referencing from the drummers post as well. So there’s me and fastonebez that think you’re in the wrong

S56035

mrkb said:

axisus said:

fastonebaz said:

I can't be the only one that was halfway through the post still thinking

" wow I didn't realise @axisus was the drummer in tesseract "

I thought the giveaway was naming the drummer in the post title personally, but I guess I credit too much intelligence to the readership around here!

I was expecting “ “ around the bit you were copying/referencing from the drummers post as well. So there’s me and fastonebez that think you’re in the wrong

And me. But yeah the name is in the title so doh.

DefaultM

I'd be surprised if Tesseract ever generated enough money to provide his and the other member's pensions.

RocknRollDave

DefaultM said:

I'd be surprised if Tesseract ever generated enough money to provide his and the other member's pensions.

This.

very interesting article, and fair play to the guy fir his honesty, but the key is ‘supporting’… They’re not headlining Wembley Arena. Support bands don’t always even get paid, as far as ai understand it!

EricTheWeary

From what I’ve read and the few pro musicians I’ve ever met it has only ever been a minority who made all their income from their main band/gig. Even some quite famous people who either didn’t make money or were ripped off. Maybe some people would assume that being in Tesco Tebay Tessdaley  this band was a full time living but I wouldn’t. Even the Dream Theatre guys have side gigs, wether that’s for the money or for artistic reasons I don’t know but I get the impression that DT isn’t 100% of their time. 

RocknRollDave said:

DefaultM said:

I'd be surprised if Tesseract ever generated enough money to provide his and the other member's pensions.

This.

very interesting article, and fair play to the guy fir his honesty, but the key is ‘supporting’… They’re not headlining Wembley Arena. Support bands don’t always even get paid, as far as ai understand it!

The biggest gig I ever played we got paid in misprinted T shirts! 

horse

RocknRollDave said:

DefaultM said:

I'd be surprised if Tesseract ever generated enough money to provide his and the other member's pensions.

This.

very interesting article, and fair play to the guy fir his honesty, but the key is ‘supporting’… They’re not headlining Wembley Arena. Support bands don’t always even get paid, as far as ai understand it!

 Yes - I even seem to remember mention of "buying on" to good support opportunities, but that may be at lower tiers

axisus

mrkb said:

axisus said:

fastonebaz said:

I can't be the only one that was halfway through the post still thinking

" wow I didn't realise @axisus was the drummer in tesseract "

I thought the giveaway was naming the drummer in the post title personally, but I guess I credit too much intelligence to the readership around here!

I was expecting “ “ around the bit you were copying/referencing from the drummers post as well. So there’s me and fastonebez that think you’re in the wrong

In which case many apologies for my deceptive post! Will try harder next time!

Stevepage

I know of a few people who were in the industry for many years up until around 2006. Distribution CEO, record company CEO and a Co-founder of a music publishing company. All earnt millions for themselves before record sales took a nose dive.

Every single one of them said the internet killed off the industry as they/we knew it and the reality is very different from the glamour we’re all told it is for top celebs etc. the same people have said that friends still in the industry have to find additional income elsewhere (investing in start ups, property) as the money just isn’t there any more.

I believe even Lady Gaga said in a interview a few years back that record labels just don’t have the money they used to, which is why people like her (even at her status) have to also have perfumes, clothing, make up etc. It seems the industry as a whole is just bumbling along and doesn’t have the clear direction it once had. In short, it’s a lottery. If you’re going to play in a band within a ‘niche’ genre then the odds are even worse to win.

Haych

Not read all the comments so forgive me if I'm repeating anything here.

It's an interesting read and an interesting issue.  However, what the writer didn't state is what his target income is from doing all the things he does to provide his family with a roof over their heads and food on the table.

I suspect what he considers a comfortable income is a far cry from what most working class families bring home during the year.

Is he only earning £45k per year (that's more than I earn by some margin), similar to skilled technical job, or has he set his sights on a better standard of living.

So, in essence, what is he lamenting?  That he can't earn a living from being a full time musician, or that he aspires to a greater income than what being a full time musician can provide?  I suspect the answer is a little bit of both, but I would also hazard a guess that he's doing a lot better for himself, and has a better standard of living, than the average IT guy working 40 hours a week.

Snags

I'd have assumed the opposite: that he's prepared to live on very little, but even then still can't do it without a "portfolio career"

hollywoodrox

I too thought for a minute Axisrus was the drummer in tesseract too



 

GoFish

darthed1981 said:

The old music industry died with Napster. 

I will contend that Napster was the symptom and not the cause. The old music industry had wrung out just about as much as it could from the hard work of jobbing musicians. Sure, some was reinvested, but on their terms etc.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Kiss were always about the monestisation and hustle. Just cause the music meant something to some fans does not mean it was made with meaning.

The record industry capitalised on a one off, generational boom in music consumption and production where, for about 40 years, it was absolutely like winning the lottery with respect to the adulation, critical importance and money that was on offer. This was gamed by some musicans, management and the industry alike. From The Pistols and before through Kiss and much later Hansen and Robbie Williams. It was gravy train that many of us would not have turned down the chance to be a part of but the bubble was primed to burst.

It's sad. Very sad. Artistic endevours an just music deserves so much more. But as someone who loves and respects music and creativity, of course I would think that. Today it just doesn't have that central, all consuming role as it used to. Thre is no Rolling Stones of today, cause they are rappers, or game designers, or tv composers or one of a dozen things that have supplanted "being a musician" in the popular sense. It seems that the doors hav shut, the drawbridge pulled up and the gravy train has cho cho-ed onto the next easy target to seperate teenagers from their tokens. Any actual good art that resulted was only ever a byproduct of the profit motive, for those interested in profit anyhow.

CaseOfAce

Robert Cavuoto: Night Ranger approaches touring a little different than most bands with mostly weekend festivals and shows, tell me about the decision behind that approach?

Brad Gillis: The deal with us is that we don’t want to go out for a couple of months on a bus tour. We usually pick the choice gigs, head out on Thursday play Friday, Saturday, and sometimes Sunday then we are back home on Monday. That allows everyone to be home during the week to do other projects and chill. We usually do a 10 -14 day run of shows in the summer. I do a lot of production music for sport’s TV during the week so it’s fun to wake up at home, fire up my computer to write music, and then head out on the weekends for the live gigs. I have a full dance card of writing and playing music. I’m not the type of guy that can take the day off or sit around watching TV. I’m always telling myself to get off my ass and do something. We are looking forward to getting out there to play new material and see what songs fans like best.

Interesting that it's come full circle and nostalgia acts now are almost doing the weekend warrior thing...

DefaultM

I used to be really in to Tesseract at the start, but I went to see them and to be honest I just didn't think they were very good. 
As far as I remember they then started the new singer/band member carousel and I lost interest.
I didn't realise they had that singer back and were still going, so I need to listen to them again, but to me they're a support band.

RocknRollDave

https://youtu.be/hfionMmCGoU

PolarityMan

DefaultM said:

I used to be really in to Tesseract at the start, but I went to see them and to be honest I just didn't think they were very good. 
As far as I remember they then started the new singer/band member carousel and I lost interest.
I didn't realise they had that singer back and were still going, so I need to listen to them again, but to me they're a support band.

They were still first wave djent though. Pretty influential.

thecolourbox

Stevepage said:

I know a few people were in the industry for many years up until around 2006. Distribution CEO, record company CEO and a music publishing CFO. All earnt millions for themselves before record sales took a nose dive.

Every single one of them said the internet killed off the industry as they/we knew it and the reality is very different from the glamour we’re all told it is for top celebs etc. the same people have said that friends still in the industry have to find additional income elsewhere (investing in start ups, property) as the money just isn’t there any more.

I believe even Lady Gaga said in a interview a few years back that record labels just don’t have the money they used to, which is why people like her (even at her status) have to also have perfumes, clothing, make up etc. It seems the industry as a whole is just bumbling along and doesn’t have the clear direction it once had. In short, it’s a lottery. If you’re going to play in a band within a ‘niche’ genre then the odds are even worse to win.

In fairness, I'd love to have the share cash to invest in property and start ups, so I assume they are operating still on a higher level than what we would consider average?

I guess everybody's perception of "enough" is different. Interesting original post by that musician

darthed1981

GoFish said:

darthed1981 said:

The old music industry died with Napster. 

I will contend that Napster was the symptom and not the cause. The old music industry had wrung out just about as much as it could from the hard work of jobbing musicians. Sure, some was reinvested, but on their terms etc.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Kiss were always about the monestisation and hustle. Just cause the music meant something to some fans does not mean it was made with meaning.

The record industry capitalised on a one off, generational boom in music consumption and production where, for about 40 years, it was absolutely like winning the lottery with respect to the adulation, critical importance and money that was on offer. This was gamed by some musicans, management and the industry alike. From The Pistols and before through Kiss and much later Hansen and Robbie Williams. It was gravy train that many of us would not have turned down the chance to be a part of but the bubble was primed to burst.

It's sad. Very sad. Artistic endevours an just music deserves so much more. But as someone who loves and respects music and creativity, of course I would think that. Today it just doesn't have that central, all consuming role as it used to. Thre is no Rolling Stones of today, cause they are rappers, or game designers, or tv composers or one of a dozen things that have supplanted "being a musician" in the popular sense. It seems that the doors hav shut, the drawbridge pulled up and the gravy train has cho cho-ed onto the next easy target to seperate teenagers from their tokens. Any actual good art that resulted was only ever a byproduct of the profit motive, for those interested in profit anyhow.

No, Napster was somebody using new technology to enable people to do what they did for years, share music on tape etc. on a global scale.  At the time the industry made bank by selling CDs, as that revenue went bye-bye, so did the old industry.

The idea that file sharing was some kind of virtuous art-loving freedom-quest from it's users is disingenuous to a hideous extreme, people were offered an opportunity to get music for free and they took it.  I remember hundreds of bands being dropped, labels collapsing left, right and centre and a lot of very smug people telling me they had downloaded the whole top 40 that week.

Bad taste in the mouth.

Now, did it lead to any good in the long run?  Yes, of course.  Streaming is a fantastic bargain for the consumer.  It has led to bands engaging more with fans, to less of a daft "aura" around them.  The old idea that the bunch of hairy blokes on stage were gods among men instead of a bunch of half-decent musicians at best full of cocaine.  To quote a fellow forumite "do I miss the days of the old industry when a coked up drummer had a higher income than some African countries... no"

No mistake though... illegal downloading was the end of the old industry, it cost many tens of thousands of jobs and has made it harder to make money from music, and almost impossible to make money from recorded music.

In the absence of gatekeepers, anyone can upload music to streaming services, and EVERYONE does.  Has it democratised music, sure, but who is going to wade through 60,000 songs per day of shit?

There is nothing less artistically valid about rappers than the Rolling Stones, that's just a matter of taste.  Both are perfectly legitimate forms of artistic expression.

You are right that the diversity of things has monopolised the attention of teenagers.  We will probably never get another Britpop (though everyone seems to hate it anyhow) and music movements will at most count their followers in the thousands.  Unless you count Ed Sheeran as a movement...

Don't underestimate video game design BTW - at their best superb immersive storytelling.

BTW - Who said anything about Kiss?!?

Philly_Q

Haych said:

Not read all the comments so forgive me if I'm repeating anything here.

It's an interesting read and an interesting issue.  However, what the writer didn't state is what his target income is from doing all the things he does to provide his family with a roof over their heads and food on the table.

I suspect what he considers a comfortable income is a far cry from what most working class families bring home during the year.

Is he only earning £45k per year (that's more than I earn by some margin), similar to skilled technical job, or has he set his sights on a better standard of living.

So, in essence, what is he lamenting?  That he can't earn a living from being a full time musician, or that he aspires to a greater income than what being a full time musician can provide?  I suspect the answer is a little bit of both, but I would also hazard a guess that he's doing a lot better for himself, and has a better standard of living, than the average IT guy working 40 hours a week.

Nothing in the original post came across to me as "lamenting".  He's just talking about making choices and working hard to "sustain [his] lifestyle".  His target income and the standard of living he wants to achieve is his own business, and I don't think it's relevant to the point he's making. 

He's just giving an example based on personal experience, not setting out a model for others to follow.  Anyone reading may consider the points he makes and think about things they can do to find a work/life/lifestyle balance which suits them.  Or they can completely ignore him.

Iamnobody

I’ve never heard of this band. And I’m a hip, spruce young man about town. 

Maybe that’s why he’s not wealthy.

Seriously though, outside of household names or massive bands in certain genres, I’d imagine making a living purely from touring and selling records has always been tough, but even tougher these days. 

He’s offered some insight to anyone looking to go in that direction that’ll hopefully be helpful.