Humidity (or not)

sev112

Low 30s in the 2 rooms with guitars.

I’ve got bowls of water in there.

today is the first day the main acoustic sounds a bit dead.

Mellish

38C here, 53% humidity.

Not sure why you need bowls of water?  

sev112

All the guidance seems to be 40 - 55% Rel Hum, hence with 29 -32 seems like it could do with some moisture in the air ?

Mellish

Gotcha! Yep, add moisture

When you said low 30s I thought you meant temp  

Tannin

A day is OK, but longer than that is a worry. I have a commercial humidity-pack (D'Addario) which goes in the sound hole with the guitar in a case. I've never used it as this house is usually within the safe range. (I bought it for the other place which can get very hot and dry in summer.)

Apparently the D'Addario one absorbs moisture as well as releasing it (which is a plus) but also (unknown to me when I bought it) is a single-use throwaway thing (which is bad). There are many other types. My local music shop, as an example,  had tree or four different ones in stock and there are dozens available on-line.

earwighoney

Tannin said:

A day is OK, but longer than that is a worry. I have a commercial humidity-pack (D'Addario) which goes in the sound hole with the guitar in a case. I've never used it as this house is usually within the safe range. (I bought it for the other place which can get very hot and dry in summer.)

Apparently the D'Addario one absorbs moisture as well as releasing it (which is a plus) but also (unknown to me when I bought it) is a single-use throwaway thing (which is bad). There are many other types. My local music shop, as an example,  had tree or four different ones in stock and there are dozens available on-line.

The D'Addario Humidipak is excellent. It can be used more than once with a little creativity... 

Mellish

Another for D'Addario's Humidipak. I wouldn't be without it. Two sachets in the soundhole and one behind the headstock.

When they start to go lumpy, don't throw 'em. Put in a cool place and they'll go liquidy again   

DavidR

Optimal humidity for classicals is 40-70%. Above 70% classicals lose their brightness of tone and the wood can swell. Below 40% they can dry out and crack or seams can open. A dried out classical will have worse tone which is less full. All this emphasises that wood of any age is a dynamic substance which calibrates to the temperature and humidity of its environment and tries to match it. Sudden changes of temp and humidity are especially harmful. So don't put classicals or acoustics in hot cars, keep them out of scorching sunlight, don't put them next to humid things like baths, showers, washrooms etc for any length of time. Keep them in a case if the environment is towards the limits of 'normal'. Prolonged humidity below 40%, you should humidify. I've never had to in the UK. Its not usually a UK problem for any type of guitar. Sensible care of valued instruments is the thing and keeping them in the right places.

Top luthiers assemble classicals in optimal humidity of 50-55%. Some of the luthiers in Granada will only assemble their guitars in the evenings!

It's sometimes said that digital/electric hygrometers are less accurate than other types and that's true, but not true enough to be a worry. Electrical hygrometers are mostly accurate to within 5% which is more than good enough for us mere guitarristas.

My favourite, although looking at Aamazon there are more modern versions from TFA-Dostmann now. I like that it automatically shows the extremes of temp and humidity from the last 24H. Makes it more useful. (You don't just want to know what the humidity is but what it has been).
TFA 30.5015 Indoor Digital Thermo Hygrometer : Amazon.co.uk: Garden & Outdoors
I kept the data sheet for this when I bought it a few years back and, referring to it now, it is accurate to within 4% between humdiditys of 35-75%, and otherwise 5% accuracy. (For temperature it is accurate to within 1%).

This mornings reading in north-west Essex. 26.3'C and 52%. Lowest humidity in the last 24H (to include the day with the highest UK temp ever, and when temps here in Saffron Walden reached 39) - 46%. Max temp near the guitars was 28.2'C - coolest room in the house with no south facing windows. Only gets a bit of sun first thing. Very well insulated.

So - Humidity (or not) - yes - but not often in the UK.

TheMadMick

The key ideas here are:

1. Avoid rapid changes - the wood cannot follow them quickly enough in the bulk medium. Then the resulting stress tries to split the wood. Keeping a guitar in its case damps out the external fluctuations and helps preserve the guitar. However, it's a bit difficult to play in the case.

2. When there are extended periods (days) of extreme temperature or humidity, take measures to control them. The most difficult will be keeping an instrument cool. Usually not a problem in this country. However, extended low temperatures are often associated with low absolute humidity.

Mostly, these are not a problem in UK even the last couple of days shouldn't result in any lasting damage unless the instrument is in direct sunlight.

ToneControl

DavidR said:

My favourite, although looking at Aamazon there are more modern versions from TFA-Dostmann now. I like that it automatically shows the extremes of temp and humidity from the last 24H. Makes it more useful. (You don't just want to know what the humidity is but what it has been).
TFA 30.5015 Indoor Digital Thermo Hygrometer : Amazon.co.uk: Garden & Outdoors
I kept the data sheet for this when I bought it a few years back and, referring to it now, it is accurate to within 4% between humdiditys of 35-75%, and otherwise 5% accuracy. (For temperature it is accurate to within 1%).

looks great, I want one
do you need to manually reset it everyday, or does it just show the last 24 hours automatically as you say?

Soupman

@TheMadMick said:
"However, it's a bit difficult to play in the case."
If you find a way, let us know.   

Tannin

TheMadMick said:

1. Avoid rapid changes - the wood cannot follow them quickly enough in the bulk medium. Then the resulting stress tries to split the wood. Keeping a guitar in its case damps out the external fluctuations and helps preserve the guitar. However, it's a bit difficult to play in the case.

The other major factor is grain. Wood expands and contracts differentially. It

* barely moves at all along the grain
* expands a bit radially (across the growth rings, from one to the next)
* expands a lot along the growth rings.

A properly quarter-sawn top or back is thus less prone to crack than a badly-chosen one (as the primary expansion is the thickness of the top rather than the width or length of it) but it still wants to get wider if it is moist (radial expansion) and the braces don't!

Tannin

Soupman said:

@TheMadMick said:
"However, it's a bit difficult to play in the case."
If you find a way, let us know.   

Not a problem. I play much better when the guitar is in the case. The result is much easier on the ear. Ask anyone.

DavidR

ToneControl said:

DavidR said:

My favourite, although looking at Aamazon there are more modern versions from TFA-Dostmann now. I like that it automatically shows the extremes of temp and humidity from the last 24H. Makes it more useful. (You don't just want to know what the humidity is but what it has been).
TFA 30.5015 Indoor Digital Thermo Hygrometer : Amazon.co.uk: Garden & Outdoors
I kept the data sheet for this when I bought it a few years back and, referring to it now, it is accurate to within 4% between humdiditys of 35-75%, and otherwise 5% accuracy. (For temperature it is accurate to within 1%).

looks great, I want one
do you need to manually reset it everyday, or does it just show the last 24 hours automatically as you say?

No. It just sits there and works. The only time you touch it is to change battery which I think I have only done once since buying it ?5y ago.

The picture shows it on a stand, but mine's hung on a cavity wall near the guitars. Screw hole in back of device.

ToneControl

DavidR said:

ToneControl said:

DavidR said:

My favourite, although looking at Aamazon there are more modern versions from TFA-Dostmann now. I like that it automatically shows the extremes of temp and humidity from the last 24H. Makes it more useful. (You don't just want to know what the humidity is but what it has been).
TFA 30.5015 Indoor Digital Thermo Hygrometer : Amazon.co.uk: Garden & Outdoors
I kept the data sheet for this when I bought it a few years back and, referring to it now, it is accurate to within 4% between humdiditys of 35-75%, and otherwise 5% accuracy. (For temperature it is accurate to within 1%).

looks great, I want one
do you need to manually reset it everyday, or does it just show the last 24 hours automatically as you say?

No. It just sits there and works. The only time you touch it is to change battery which I think I have only done once since buying it ?5y ago.

The picture shows it on a stand, but mine's hung on a cavity wall near the guitars. Screw hole in back of device.

great, I've ordered one

Mellish

The two hygrometers I like and use are EXTECH and Oasis Caliber IV. 

The Oasis is dead easy to calibrate (should you need to) and is cheap as chips. The EXTECH will show you recent extremes  

Tannin

Another thing you might consider is one of these: https://www.jaycar.com.au/digital-weather-station-with-colour-display/p/XC0434?pos=1 Yes, it is gross overkill, but I'm talking to people who spend £2000 on guitars they don't need and have three different amps and 17 pedals ... so don't talk to ne about overkill.

Anyway, these gadgets cost $300 here, say less than £200 in the UK and once you set them up you have an at-a-glance  accurate readout of the indoor and outdoor temperature and humidity, air pressure, wind speed and direction in real time. Plus, depending on what exact model you get, you might get extra sensors. For example, we have an extra sensor in the greenhouse - brilliant for making sure things don't get scorched on a hot day, or too cold on a frosty night. 

It all works wirelessly and is fuss-free to set up and easy-peasy to use, For a small annual  fee you can sign up with Weathercloud (or various alternatives, but Weathercloud is good) and track your history.  For example, which direction do the strongest winds come from? What was the highest gust last year? It's all there. 

Or, of course, you can track the indoor humidity in your music room. (I keep my guitars in the living space, so I don't need an extra sensor, just the main display.)

I gave one of these to Mrs Tannin for her birthday a couple of years ago and it was an instant ht. Not only that, but we still refer to it multiple times each day. I thought the novelty would wear off after a while but instead it has just become as much a part of our day as looking out the window.