Cheaper Eastman's - opinions

malcolmkindness

Greatape said:

A friend just bought an Eastman e6 (or something), heat treated top etc. A sniff over £1000 but soon that model rises to about £1200. 

I was extremely impressed by the build, etc. But £1200 is not in my gift. Has anyone tried the cheaper ranges? Any good? 

Buy second hand. There is an Eastman E60 in Ireland on adverts.ie for €750, so there's probably one somewhere in England for similar money. Eastman are excellent guitars for the price.

BillDL

DavidR said:

Cannot recommend Yamaha's FS and FG series enough.

I feel the same about them.  I bought a Yamaha FS-830 for £380 a while ago and it is a beautiful sounding, well made, and versatile guitar.  I find it almost impossible to hear the difference between that guitar and my £800 "concert" sized Yamaha, which makes me now wonder why I wasted £420.  "Oh, but it has laminated back and sides".  Yeah, and I can't hear the difference between that and the solid wood one that cost twice as much and isn't any better finished.

Tannin

DavidR said:

Cannot recommend Yamaha's FS and FG series enough.

Eastman is a Chinese brand and some have concerns about their employment ethics and wood sourcing. Most Yamahas (a massive Japanese conglomerate) at the cheaper end also originate from China too though so maybe plus c'est la même chose! I would like to think that the products of Japanese industry are more ethical, but that might not be a given.

Yamaha has a good reputation for sustainable and ethical practices. See here: https://www.yamaha.com/en/csr/environment/sustainable_resource_use/ Not perfect, but pretty good, and improving year by year. And their instruments, of course, are among the very best - and that statement holds good whether you are shopping in the  £200 price range or at the £4000 end. Come to think of it, it holds good whether you are looking for a guitar or a flute or even a piano. 

DavidR

Tannin said:

DavidR said:

Cannot recommend Yamaha's FS and FG series enough.

Eastman is a Chinese brand and some have concerns about their employment ethics and wood sourcing. Most Yamahas (a massive Japanese conglomerate) at the cheaper end also originate from China too though so maybe plus c'est la même chose! I would like to think that the products of Japanese industry are more ethical, but that might not be a given.

Yamaha has a good reputation for sustainable and ethical practices. See here: https://www.yamaha.com/en/csr/environment/sustainable_resource_use/ Not perfect, but pretty good, and improving year by year. And their instruments, of course, are among the very best - and that statement holds good whether you are shopping in the  £200 price range or at the £4000 end. Come to think of it, it holds good whether you are looking for a guitar or a flute or even a piano. 

Only just seen this Tannin. Very interesting indeed. Shows intent and evidences action taken. All makers should be able to show similar. For certain timbers there are problems not only with quantity and the environmental impact of removal but also the number of the large specimen trees. They're gone!

For me Taylor's efforts to utilise sustainable wood and protect nature are a gold standard in the industry. Plus, with Lowden, they are enthusiastic about experimentation with some of the (what must in reality be scores of) woods suitable for use as tone woods and structural woods. Other makers are too ready to give players what they expect. Rosewood, spruce, mahogany etc. Makers of guitars have always been influenced by customer demand. It takes bravery and vision to actually create that demand. Lowden's support of the use of walnut is a good example of that. Australia's use of Bunya another.

TheMarlin

I’m a big Fan of Yamaha FG and L series acoustics. 

Tannin

I agree entirely @DavidR and I didn't know that about Lowden.

So far as the industry giants go, Taylor is the leader, with honourable mention also to Furch. (Does Furch count as an "industry giant"? They certainly make a lot of guitars. The Godin empire in Canada also seems to be doing the right thing on a large scale.

Here in Oz Cole Clark is outstanding, with the vast bulk of their production from sustainable timbers, and a commitment to phasing out all non-sustainable timbers as they deplete their existing stock of (e.g.) Indian Rosewood. Maton (a larger manufacturer than CC, about the same size as Lowden) pioneered local timbers back in the 1950s - largely at first because it was difficult to source imported timber in the post-war economy with rationing and foreign exchange shortages and so on, but over time that morphed into an appreciation of the merits of local timber for its own sake, and better understandings of the best way to work it. These days, 90-95% of Maton's production uses Blackwood or Queensland Maple, typically with spruce tops but sometimes Bunya or Blackwood. Outside of a few small-shop luthiers (and not many even of those) there isn't a maker in this country still using rosewood and mahogany as their mainline timbers, it's all about the locally-grown stuff, which is in almost all cases sustainable.

Back in the US, Breedlove is a funny one. Breedlove were gung-ho on sustainability and pioneered Myrtlewood. They are still talking the talk but their Chinese partnership program makes me wonder. Any company which produces a dedicated "eco" model of anything - guitar, car, T-shirt, you name it - has to be suspect. It is nearly always an admission that the company as a whole is doing the wrong thing but this particular range (typically at extra cost) is sustainable / palm-oil free / carbon neutral / fair trade / other selling point. Gibson, for example - a known offender with form - has an "eco" range, and says as little as possible about their mainline production. Well, maybe Breedlove are just not communicating effectively, but when I see a whole uncertified range of standard products, plus one little range of "eco" ones, I habitually smell a rat. 

earwighoney

DavidR said:

Eastman is a Chinese brand and some have concerns about their employment ethics and wood sourcing. Most Yamahas (a massive Japanese conglomerate) at the cheaper end also originate from China too though so maybe plus c'est la même chose! I would like to think that the products of Japanese industry are more ethical, but that might not be a given.

I will have to disagree with this statement at least partly.

For a start, for some of their models they use the same supplier as Collings for their Red Spruce soundboards,

You can find the info here

http://www.adirondackspruce.com

Eastman have also built guitars with spruce from these guys

https://www.tonewood.ch/en/

And will supply a guitar with the Florinett certificate to show it came from them.

GoFish

Regarding Yamaha, they really do make some cracking instruments. I've heard that their aim is to be in the top 3 of every sector they participate in. They're not a million miles away from that!

Greatape

Tried a £500(?) Eastman today. Hugely impressed. 

Shadow

I played an E2OM which is cedar and mahogany last week retailing for £520. It was a lovely sounding guitar.

swiller

They are great. Across the board. 

Its an almost racist stereotype that chinese people just make en masse instruments in factorys for western global companies in sweatshops. Simply not the case and ethics are sound at eastman. Its just not greedy like western handmade custom shop outfits. Think history will favour these guitars very well. 

Tannin

swiller said:

Its an almost racist stereotype 

^ An entirely unwarranted comment. 

swiller said:

Simply not the case and ethics are sound at eastman.

Evidence please. In particular, evidence that Eastman is responsibly sourcing timber. Their website maintains a discreet silence about their timber sourcing - you'd think if they were on the up and up, they would be only too happy to tell the world about it. Let us remember that China is the undisputed world champion of illegal logging. If Eastman (unlike China as a whole) is actually sourcing its timbers ethically, why doesn't Eastman say so, and provide hard evidence?

I'd love them to do that as there are things I'd like to buy that only Eastman makes (short of full custom builds) - acoustic archtops for one example. But unless and until they demonstrate genuine environmental credentials, I'll not go near their products, and I don't care how cheap they are.

(Spruce from Canada and Alaska is a red herring. The species of concern are for the most part tropical hardwoods sourced from Asia, Africa, and South America.) 

WindmillGuitars

@Greatape We're a main UK Eastman dealer - if I can help at all please drop me a DM.
Cheers Simon

Greatape

WindmillGuitars said:

@Greatape We're a main UK Eastman dealer - if I can help at all please drop me a DM.
Cheers Simon

Appreciate it Simon, but I'm near Project.

Thanks all the same