Playing Over A Drone Help

NorthernStomps

My music theory is garbage and it’s something I’m trying to improve. But right now I’m taking the easy route and asking people who actually know what they are doing 

Sooo. I have a synth pad doing a constant drone in either just an E note or an E minor chord, I haven’t decided yet 

I’m wanting to play some chords over it, namely chords in the key of E minor/G major but they just don’t seem to sound quite right and it feels like there is some clashing there 

any help?

Caffeine_Vampire

Try using inversions and remember that clashing is fine in some circumstances because it causes tension, your issue may be that the tension is not being released because there's no movement in the music. A I / V vamp may be better.

NorthernStomps

Caffeine_Vampire said:

Try using inversions and remember that clashing is fine in some circumstances because it causes tension, your issue may be that the tension is not being released because there's no movement in the music. A I / V vamp may be better.

Im just playing chords consisting of the root and 3rds. Maybe alternating the drone between the E and the B might be the way to go as you suggest 

Caffeine_Vampire

NorthernStomps said:

Caffeine_Vampire said:

Try using inversions and remember that clashing is fine in some circumstances because it causes tension, your issue may be that the tension is not being released because there's no movement in the music. A I / V vamp may be better.

Im just playing chords consisting of the root and 3rds. Maybe alternating the drone between the E and the B might be the way to go as you suggest 

Don't forget that a minor 3rd played over a major 3rd is instant blues. Assuming you're playing over a major chord try tweaking that minor 3rd a little towards the major and find the sweet spot

viz

(I’m assuming you’re in Em rather than G major for the below description):

Even if you’re playing chords that are in the key of Em (Em, G, Am, Bm, C etc), you can’t overlay some chords on top of others without some clashing. So if your drone is an Em or Em7 chord (E G B D), and if you try and overlay for example an Am chord (A C E), the A will clash with the G and B, and the C will clash with the B and D.

it would just about work on an E single note drone, which is far less specific and has fewer things to clash against. 

But I think better would be to play your chords over a 2- or 3-chord vamp, like a 1 4 5 vamp (Em, Am, Bm), and experiment with what chords work over that. 

NorthernStomps

viz said:

(I’m assuming you’re in Em rather than G major for the below description):

Even if you’re playing chords that are in the key of Em (Em, G, Am, Bm, C etc), you can’t overlay some chords on top of others. So if your drone is an Em or Em7 chord (E G B D), and if you try and overlay for example an Am chord (A C E), the A will clash with the G and B, and the C will clash with the B and D.

it would just about work on an E single note drone, which is far less specific and has fewer things to clash against. 

But I think better would be to play your chords over a 2- or 3-chord vamp, like a 1 4 5 vamp (Em, Am, Bm), and experiment with what chords work over that. 

Yeah that all kinda makes sense. I’m having slightly more success playing over a E5 drone than a full Em as there are obviously fewer notes to clash. And the chords I’m playing over the top are all 3 chords ie just the root and 3rd notes. 

I have never heard this term, vamp, before what is it? I would Google it but don’t want to be inundated with Twilight stuff 

Caffeine_Vampire

A vamp is a repeating musical pattern, usually over a couple of bars.

NorthernStomps

Caffeine_Vampire said:

A vamp is a repeating musical pattern, usually over a couple of bars.

I have been playing music for like 15 years and somehow never heard this term haha! 

Caffeine_Vampire

NorthernStomps said:

Caffeine_Vampire said:

A vamp is a repeating musical pattern, usually over a couple of bars.

I have been playing music for like 15 years and somehow never heard this term haha! 

Always something new to learn It keeps things interesting. 

steven70

Can't add much on the theory side, but if you are chasing ideas, a drone on single note is better, as you are not tied down. You can add some movement to the pad using resonance and filter. Bang on an echo and try some gliss guitar = hours of fun. That might all be getting a bit spacey though if you have something specific in mind.

Greatape

Apologies for theory dump

If you are playing diatonic chords from G maj against an E note, that will sound more consonant with some than others. 

If we list the chords and how E related intervallically:

G maj - E is the 6th/13th
Am - E is the fifth

Bm - E is the 4th/11th
C maj - E is the maj3rd

D maj - E is the 9th
Em - root note

F dim - E is the b7

However, if you are playing doublestops/diads in thirds against that e.g G, B against E, you then would invert those so E to G is a min3rd and E to B us a perfect fifth. That will sound pretty consonant as E G B spells an Em triad.

Basically, the different intervals will display differing degrees of consonance, especially to the unfamiliar ear. 

Look up three-note diatonic triads in the three inversions (R on bottom, 3 on bottom, 5 on bottom) on strings 234 and 123. Learn those for key of G / E minor and just listen to them against your E drone. 

(I've had a brief look and couldn't see any written out as a scale as opposed to maj/min etc. If you get stuck pm me) 

Do the same with chords from D over your E drone. Chords of G moving to A over E bass note is pretty cool? 

Learning to move through scales in chords is super useful. 

atmos

Perhaps it's best to use a single note for the drone as it opens up way more possibilities for both chords and melodies. You could play a drone note using E then play any chord from E minor to add flavour to the sound. Could even use things like Fmaj7, or any other chord that has the note E in it. Hope that helps

PolarityMan

NorthernStomps said:

My music theory is garbage and it’s something I’m trying to improve. But right now I’m taking the easy route and asking people who actually know what they are doing 

Sooo. I have a synth pad doing a constant drone in either just an E note or an E minor chord, I haven’t decided yet 

I’m wanting to play some chords over it, namely chords in the key of E minor/G major but they just don’t seem to sound quite right and it feels like there is some clashing there 

any help?

Quite often synth oscilators are detuned to make fatter sound but this can make them "read" as a different pitch when played with a real instrument. Try fiddling with the sound a bit.

Evo

There are quite a few very good suggestions here for why things may be clashing but I'm surprised that nobody has addressed the point that really....it shouldn't be.

If you're playing over a droning E minor chord then you should be able to play the following triads without anything sounding too musically offensive

Em - EGB
G major - GBD
Am - ACE
Bm - BDF#
C major - CEG
D major - DF#A

Also F# diminished but if we're talking about avoiding clashing tones then I'd leave that out of the equation for now.

First of all, make double and triple sure that you're playing these triads correctly and not adding in any extra notes. Extensions or fancy versions your mates showed you can and do lead to problems, so stick strictly to the basic triads in this case. 

Secondly, if you're definitely playing the triads correctly and you're still feeling like notes sound odd or out of place then take note of which triads they are. We may be able to help better if we can pinpoint exactly which triads are hitting your ear askew.

Lastly, try to keep some movement happening. As folks have helpfully already pointed out, some triads will sound better than others so moving between them will sound better than leaving certain notes ringing against the drone for any extended length of time. 

Hope this helps!

viz

^ I mean, anything can be played with anything, there are no rules, so yeah like Evo says, if it’s part of a flow, or you are deliberately trying to create jazzy sounds, or a sense of tension before release, then yep, anything goes. But if you just try and overlay a D major over an E minor in the same region of pitch for example, you will get the following notes: D E F# G A B. That’s just 6 notes next to each other. It’s going to clash..

But if you do things like separate the chords, by pitch - like with an octave in between - or by using different sounds, or different timings, like a big distorted low E minor chord followed by a quick chirpy clean upbeat D major, an octave higher, as part of a progression so it’s not just sitting there occupying the same space, it would be totally different. 

But specifically on clashing, the F#dim and the D major are going to clash significantly, and the Am and B minor are going to clash a bit (but could sound jazzy)

viz

There’s a great ewe-chewber called Joel McCray who has opened my eyes to some of these superimposed chords and how they can work, particularly over a dominant chord (ie a V chord). 

Like over an E7, before resolving to Am:

The E7 (no 5) has E G# D

And the following upper triads work:

Gm, which had G Bb D

Fm, which has F Ab C

C, which has E G C

Or Bb, which has F Bb D

Each triad gives a different flat or sharp 9th and 5th, and they all produce significant clashing, but they sound AMAZING!

https://youtu.be/VowsMEUvryY