Singing thread for amateurs

Sambostar

@axisus everyone should have a go, granted, some can sing with better tone and range than others, but to say that some can't sing is a bit of an insult to hard work and endless hours of practice and developed muscle memory of those that 'Can'.

Sambostar

Didn't mean to sound rude, the rest of my rant didn't post, lol.  I struggle getting higher and when i try to sing in head voice it barely reaches the chest or talking voice of your average pop song and sounds more like a choirboy singing Going Up Country by Canned Heat than gravelly.  Not so sure I'm a great bass singer either, having seen some great bass singers in classical choirs. Also my voice cracks when I try to sing an E4, which is only 2 octaves up from a low E on the guitar and cannot transition from chest to head, which is very common.  Fed up of a reliance on lead singers, think our approach in our crappy covers band is who ever can sing the lead best does so and the rest harmonise, it will never cut through the mix as well as a higher pitched singer and mic technique is crucial, but it's one approach.  Endlessly higher range singing can get boring anyway to my ears.  Got a few lessons booked, it's a bucket list thing.

thecolourbox

I think what i find frustrating about singing is that with every other instrument , with enough effort time and money you can basically sound like whatever you want - you can learn the guitar parts of whoever that you like, buy the same amps or modelling etc, on piano you can learn the pieces and techniques to do what you want and like. But with singing, you basically have to work with what you've got whether you like it or not. All you can really do is make it better within its own thing but you can't choose how to sound, hence why I get pissed off as I don't enjoy the music I can sing.

I always think it's a massive coincidence that the big stars and singing legends happen to have a voice which suits what they like. Imagine if Whitney Houston actually only really liked Grunge music but she was trapped in having to do the big ballad stuff. Or if Chris Cornell's musical ideal had actually have been the songs of Lloyd Webber?

I did try and get some singing lessons locally a while back but the local teachers to me were all musical theatre or classical based

roberty

I kind of have the opposite problem, I picked up singing in little venues with shitty PAs and no monitoring, basically had to sing high and loud to be heard. I can get quite screechy if I'm not careful. I've been trying to work on my chest voice a bit and get a fatter, warmer tone in general

I mostly do shouty stuff because it's my default setting: https://www.dropbox.com/s/dokkgf4h5n6916w/Razor.mp3?dl=0

But I did this quiet one recently just to sort of prove I can: https://www.dropbox.com/s/q45l9lhv1cwtnio/AUD-20211020-WA0006.mp3?dl=0

@thecolourbox you sound great to me, I would love to be able to sing the way you do

Cryptid

@thecolourbox You've got a great voice man. It's what I'd called 'honest' which is possibly the best compliment I can give. So many singers over-stylise their voice these days IMO. Your soft lisp and tone reminds me of the best aspects of Robert Wyatt's voice.

I used to love singing as a child. After a duet with my then best mate at a talent show (around the age of 13), he took me aside and told me my voice was terrible and that everyone had been laughing at me. I thanked him for being honest, internalised it, and didn't sing again for decades. A powerful belief (amongst others pertaining to how others hear me) that I'm still working on shaking off!

What got me singing again was a gig on acoustic accompanying a pop/soul choir. Most were far from confident singers but the joy was infectious. I joined full time and by the second rehearsal I was singing too. 8 years in and I'm confident enough in that setting to lead the choir if the conductor is absent. 

I have a deep chest voice (can belt up to E4 ish), and on a good day my head voice will get me to E5. Find it very hard to bridge the two though.

I still don't have the confidence to perform solo, or to sing at volume in my thin-walled terraced house. Yet whenever I'm in the shower or running a bath I feel more comfortable and almost compelled to sing. I've found a white noise generator helps take the edge off. 

Every now and again, I catch myself singing without realising I've been doing so. Effortless with a good natural vibrato... right up to the point where I become aware of it and try do it again  

thecolourbox

@roberty wow, there's a lot of energy in your voice! And such a unique characterful voice. Kind of got a high pitched Gary Numan about it, how did you even work out you could do that?

@cryptid that's very kind, I've no idea who Robert Wyatt is but I'll look him up in case he does more interesting music than I've managed to do with my voice. I know my voice sounds inoffensively pleasant (albeit not for more than a couple of songs as it gets boring VERY quickly) but it just that the music it can do holds very little interest for me unfortunately. I've not been able to (nor has anybody else I've asked) find any music it would work with that is interesting to me. I enjoy grungey and garage rock type influenced stuff, not the staid "self assured" smug-look-on-my-face classic songbook type stuff. Also, before anybody suggests it - collaborating or playing alongside others won't work either! There are better singers and better accompanists than me who would be better suited to that setup. I just feel like i've achieved all I can with my voice, there's no other music to discover with it for me.

Sounds like you just need to keep doing the random unaware singing more often Cryptid, so you know how the chest and throat feel when you're doing the nicer sounds, so they become natural. If you can get to E5 you've got a better pitch range than me. I think I can get to c5 or c#5 at best and that's only with a bizarre out-breathing technique. You'll suddenly out of nowhere get the confidence maybe - I didn't sing until at least mid 20s

Edit: do I have a lisp? I had never noticed...

2nd edit: a quick Spotify peruse of Wyatt and I'm not sure if I somehow managed to combine lots of unrelated recordings to play at the same time, mixed with a bit of 70s talk radio voices... Is there a specific song I should be looking for?!

Cryptid

@thecolourbox ;;; The Robert Wyatt who once drummed for Soft Machine. This is his most well-known solo song I think...



Obviously you don't have the accent, but the general tone of your voice made me think of him (meant as a compliment). But then again I seem to make a lot of random connections that others don't agree with. Perhaps you don't have a lisp when you talk but the sibilance on the recordings sounds to me like a soft lisp, which I quite like.

I think my voice suits classic songbook stuff better too, but I don't mind so much. For years I hated it and played in heavy guitar bands (no vocals from me) but the choir experience has really made me appreciate a lot of that stuff again, especially when transcribing and arranging. I often wish my voice sounded more soulful and gravelly - it sounds contrived when I try, despite decades of smoking. I'm just grateful for the weekly opportunity to sing at volume in a supportive atmosphere, even if it's material I'd not necessarily listen to at home. 

Can you give some examples of music you enjoy and don't think your voice is suited to?

It sounds like you've reached a sort of mental impasse with your voice if you feel like there's no other music to discover with it. Maybe finding the right teacher would help develop your voice in that direction, if you really wanted to.

Sambostar

thecolourbox said:

I think what i find frustrating about singing is that with every other instrument , with enough effort time and money you can basically sound like whatever you want - you can learn the guitar parts of whoever that you like, buy the same amps or modelling etc, on piano you can learn the pieces and techniques to do what you want and like. But with singing, you basically have to work with what you've got whether you like it or not. All you can really do is make it better within its own thing but you can't choose how to sound, hence why I get pissed off as I don't enjoy the music I can sing.

This exactly.  Hey, maybe do a cover challenge, bit like the guitar challenge thing.  Original song, in your own style, but set to a certain key.  That would certainly mix it up.  .  Or, at least reveal some of our weaknesses or strengths, only a very few can really do everything, I do hate them, lol, but they're a rare breed or very well experienced and practiced with sooo many hours or hard work in, so you can't really be bitter about it. 

But then, so much about how our voices should sound is lead by popular music or culture.  Ha, for example Mongolian throat singing is never really gonna chart, but it has it's place. In our band, we work with peer pressure basically, we'll never be great.  Usually work out who's best with their sound, singing all the notes, when something new is one the table. It gets a bit competitive, but we're realistic enough to know who's strongest for the lead and it does change, in fact it pisses me off a little when someone tries to do everything, even though it's not the best, or equally drop down to where I'm harmonizing, when they can kill the lead vocal.

Sambostar

Here are some from high to low, think my range is somewhere in between. 

Take back that suggestion about a mini X Factor, that, algorithmic screening bots and retirement flats have decimated the music industry.  Everyone's voice is unique and poetry is what it is, I've always struggled with language, probably like most other guitar players, and things often come across as serious when I don't mean them to be, which is why drink helps, but I can't help but feel everyone can offer something, no matter how half cut or spoken or badly recorded or out of time.  Just got so inspired when one of my favourite local bands/singers said he had singing lessons and also a solo artists at the beer festival at the weekend.  Never be a touch on him, or his bandmates, or the other guy, but still inspiring.  Yeah, that last one is a Paul Robeson cover lol.  Come them coming and any advice appreciated, apart from give up 

Sambostar

LastMantra said:

I think the main thing is you need to just do it. I mean people here play and practice guitar every day and we all know it takes years to get any good, singing is no different really. You can't expect to just automatically be good.

Totally agree with this and @DiscoStu, donno if that was a break to head voice or falsetto, sounded more like head, but I'd listen to you down a pub on an evening as a paid gig, you are a lot better than a local duo who have got a lot of press and I don't know why and a lot of three pieces, certainly if you have more like that.  

thecolourbox

Looking forward to listening to those examples tomorrow @sambostar - can't listen just now but will definitely do so tomorrow. 

roberty

@thecolourbox finding that voice was a gradual thing, it sort of evolved over years of rehearsing and gigging and it's a kind of a character I slip into. Really though it was just a way to be heard through shit PAs

thecolourbox

@Sambostar thanks for sharing - I particularly enjoyed Flying Shoes and Bastard Son, they seemed to be in your most controlled range and sounded good. I think you'd be surprised with the results if you sang separately to playing the guitar - it sounds like you're trying hard to stay in with the guitar which is harder to do whilst playing. You could definitely do something with some lessons I reckon, or at least some guidance from somebody who specialises in singing the styles you like to do. Great stuff though, thanks for sharing!

LastMantra

It's definitely easier to get a more polished result when you record guitar and vocals separately, so you can focus more on each. 

Saying that I'm enjoying listening to your stuff @Sambostar and it has an honesty for want of a better word that's easily lost when you focus too much on "production". It sounds like you are getting into it, there's "feeling" there.
Unfortunately I can't get @roberty 's stuff atm because of my old phone 

roberty

I like your sincere delivery @Sambostar, like @LastMantra said. Flying Shoes was my fave out of those

I have some old stuff on Soundcloud from my previous band, we did a Talking Heads cover that was quite fun. It was recorded in one take

LastMantra

Got that one @roberty, excellent! Not a tune I'm familiar with but really loved every bit of it. 

thecolourbox

Yes your voice really suits that kind of vibe and rhythm, very cool stuff

robinbowes

Great idea for a thread. I really wish I could sing better than I can. I must try some lessons.

I used to have a much wider range, but got straight-armed in the throat playing hockey in the early-2000s and am much more limited now. eg. I used to be able to do falsetto but no longer can (eg. used to be able to do the Barbara Woodhouse "Walkies" thing, but now can't).

 Anyway, here are a couple of songs, rough recordings. The first is recorded in one take; the second, I recorded a guide then replaced the tracks and I think the vocal is a little loud in the mix.

All comments appreciated - not looking to have smoke blown up my arse!

thecolourbox

Good stuff @Robinbowes, i think the second one especially suited your voice with a slower more relaxed pace to it, and I guess being recorded separately to guitar. You have a nice "edge of break up" sound (to use a guitar term) at times where you're moving around the notes especially, adds a bit of different interest to it in my opinion. I think with a bit more confidence in it your breathing would also be steadier and help you out a bit

robinbowes

thecolourbox said:

Good stuff @Robinbowes, i think the second one especially suited your voice with a slower more relaxed pace to it, and I guess being recorded separately to guitar. You have a nice "edge of break up" sound (to use a guitar term) at times where you're moving around the notes especially, adds a bit of different interest to it in my opinion. I think with a bit more confidence in it your breathing would also be steadier and help you out a bit

Thanks for the comments.

Interesting you spotted the break-up thing - I noticed it myself when recording. I think I'd been singing quite a lot that day!

That song is right on the edge of (and possibly just a bit out of) my range. Listening back, I remember now that the timing is a bit out of whack - I recorded it in a bit of a hurry.

I shall try doing some more recordings and see how I'm progressing.

R.