Are the days of buying cheaper acoustics finally over?

bugileman

I can't believe the prices some are selling these old 1970s acoustics! Personally I'd never pay £800 for an FG180, that's frankly taking the p**s. I do love the old Yamaha guitars (I have a few), but its just ludicrous pricing. Neck resets are expensive, but someone I know does them very reseaonably. 



https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/165667864738?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=lHeKTs5gRr2&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=-jNfc18tRhq&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

Winny_Pooh

No one bought it... so it's not a good indicator of pricing. Found all those old Yamaha's extremely bland.

Lots of better sounding cheap acoustics  made in the last 20 years.

Tannin

Try looking for quality from unexpected places. I'm thinking of the high-wage, high-skill places Japanese manufacturers went to avoid the very high Japanese labour costs before they threw in the towel and switched again to the cheapest places they could find (mostly China and Indonesia). 

When the likes of Yamaha first went offshore, they went to Taiwan and/or South Korea - both high-skill countries that pay a higher minimum wage than the USA does. A couple of weeks ago I had the pleasure of playing an excellent Yamaha dreadnought made in Taiwan. The shop was asking $999 for it (about  £540) and it looked like a $2000+ guitar and played like one too. The finish and attention to detail was outstanding; it played beautifully, and sounded just the way you'd want a rosewood dread to sound.

I was seriously tempted to buy it. The only thing that put me off was the 42.5mm nut.* I struggle with narrow nuts. But if you are an electric player, you won't know any better, and in every other respect this was a ripper. 

* Well, OK, the only other thing. In honestly I should mention that I already have 7 guitars and I like being married to Mrs Tannin.

EDIT: here is a link to it. https://topshelfinstruments.com.au/collections/guitars-basses/products/yamaha-ll-8rj-dreadnought-acoustic-1991 It has been sold, so I can stop being tempted to buy it anyway now.

earwighoney

bugileman said:

I can't believe the prices some are selling these old 1970s acoustics! Personally I'd never pay £800 for an FG180, that's frankly taking the p**s. I do love the old Yamaha guitars (I have a few), but its just ludicrous pricing. Neck resets are expensive, but someone I know does them very reseaonably. 



https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/165667864738?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=lHeKTs5gRr2&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=-jNfc18tRhq&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

Just because the seller has placed a price tag of £800 on it, it doesn't mean it will sell for that price!

If you look at completed listings, one sold for just over £100.

Shadow

earwighoney said:

bugileman said:

I can't believe the prices some are selling these old 1970s acoustics! Personally I'd never pay £800 for an FG180, that's frankly taking the p**s. I do love the old Yamaha guitars (I have a few), but its just ludicrous pricing. Neck resets are expensive, but someone I know does them very reseaonably. 



https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/165667864738?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=lHeKTs5gRr2&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=-jNfc18tRhq&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

Just because the seller has placed a price tag of £800 on it, it doesn't mean it will sell for that price!

If you look at completed listings, one sold for just over £100.

Indeed. Someone's been trying to sell a used Eastman E2OM on eBay for £900 when they retail new at about £520.

ICBM

earwighoney said:

If you look at completed listings, one sold for just over £100.

I think around £150 for one of these is about right, possibly more in the unusual event that it doesn't need a neck reset *and* hasn't had the bridge shaved or badly ramped - many have - and less if it needs a reset and a replacement bridge.

earwighoney

ICBM said:

earwighoney said:

If you look at completed listings, one sold for just over £100.

I think around £150 for one of these is about right, possibly more in the unusual event that it doesn't need a neck reset *and* hasn't had the bridge shaved or badly ramped - many have - and less if it needs a reset and a replacement bridge.

What's your impression of them?

The FG-180 was played by the singer songwriter Elliott Smith who brought a little popularity to the model.

bugileman

earwighoney said:

ICBM said:

earwighoney said:

If you look at completed listings, one sold for just over £100.

I think around £150 for one of these is about right, possibly more in the unusual event that it doesn't need a neck reset *and* hasn't had the bridge shaved or badly ramped - many have - and less if it needs a reset and a replacement bridge.

What's your impression of them?

The FG-180 was played by the singer songwriter Elliott Smith who brought a little popularity to the model.

Great guitars in my opinion.  I have two and Japanese 1971 and a Taiwan 1972. Both play really well and luckily no reset needed just yet. Taiwan made are absolutely no different to the Japanese, just people think they are inferior to the Japanese.....but that's a myth.

ICBM

earwighoney said:

What's your impression of them?

In my opinion, they can be quite nice but only really come alive in the hands of a player who would sound good on anything. That's not meant as a backhanded compliment, just that I've heard them sound good for some people, but I don't find them particularly easy to get a great tone out of .

On the other hand almost every one I've ever played has had the bridge shaved or at least the saddle cut right down, often to a ludicrous degree, and which definitely does ruin the tone.

DavidR

FG fan but I sort of agree with OP. Why buy an old FG when you can buy a new one!

Old FG's have aged very well tonally but the thin tops on some of the original marques have lead to many (not all) of them having bowed tops and high actions which can be difficult and expensive to correct.

Just buy a modern e.g. FG830! I have one. It costs, plays, looks and sounds great  All the dreadnought many people, and all students, will ever need. (Slight exaggeration but I'm a fan). Nice light guitar. Solid spruce top, Rosewood back and sides. Well made. I have an FG5 too which is even better.  :-)

Yamaha F Series | FG830 - Natural - Peach Guitars

Otherwise very much agree with @Winny_Pooh "Lots of better sounding cheap acoustics  made in the last 20 years." The emphasis being on lots.

A budget of £1,000 will, with some effort spent learning the market, get you a great acoustic currently. £500 will get you a very good one. Yamaha, Eastman, Furch and many others.

DavidR

Looking at the eBay example in your OP, that's a very nice example of a Made in Japan (Nippon Gakki) Red Label 1970's FG yes. They're the ones people want. (Many other FG's from the period made in Taiwan, still good but less desirable) It says it has had a proper setup. It's not going to fit in that case is it! Lots of people would pay top dosh for that IMHO.

But not me and not on eBay and not without playing it and checking the action and structural integrity. Personally I would prefer a new one.

P.S., and info only, but the FG5 and FG3 iterations of the FG were made to reproduce FG's like this one you have found on eBay. FG5's and FG3's are still available or if not Yamaha will make you one. Yamaha know there's a market for these old Red Label instruments. They're a bit famous. (Even now, the FS3, FS5, FG3 and FG5 are marketed as "Red Label" guitars.) Take a look; you'll see the similarities. Same build, rosette, open tuners everything. Although FG180 would have had had laminate top/back/sides I think. Apart from all that, FG5 very good in its own right. FG3  similar but has just not had Hamamatsu setup, so cheaper. Yamaha will tell you FG5 is Made in Japan but there is some evidence that the original build up to a basic stage is Chinese, certainly the FG3 and FG5 are identical in many aspects. My FG5 shipped from Hamamatsu so it was certainly there at the end! 

Yamaha FG3 Red Label Acoustic Guitar In Natural Finish with Vintage Styling | Yamaha Music London

Yamaha Red Label | FG5 - Vintage Natural - Peach Guitars

guitarjack66

DavidR said:

FG fan but I sort of agree with OP. Why buy an old FG when you can buy a new one!

Old FG's have aged very well tonally but the thin tops on some of the original marques have lead to many (not all) of them having bowed tops and high actions which can be difficult and expensive to correct.

Just buy a modern e.g. FG830! I have one. It costs, plays, looks and sounds great  All the dreadnought many people, and all students, will ever need. (Slight exaggeration but I'm a fan). Nice light guitar. Solid spruce top, Rosewood back and sides. Well made. I have an FG5 too which is even better.  :-)

Yamaha F Series | FG830 - Natural - Peach Guitars

Otherwise very much agree with @Winny_Pooh "Lots of better sounding cheap acoustics  made in the last 20 years." The emphasis being on lots.

A budget of £1,000 will, with some effort spent learning the market, get you a great acoustic currently. £500 will get you a very good one. Yamaha, Eastman, Furch and many others.

They are a great price. Yamaha tend to have narrower width fretboards,from the few I've tried and that puts me off. Dreadnought size is a bit too big also,although I hear their smaller models(FS is it?) are still very good.

DavidR

Yes. FG = Folk Guitar, FS = Folk Small @guitarjack66 ;

C_side_Grandad

I had an FG-180 Red Label bought new in 1969. Sold it a couple of years ago for around £400 – and now miss it! Moral – if you like what you've got, hang on to it.

PAL

It's not taking the P it's because we have got into the mind set of "old is better" and that drives the price up so it's us who are 
 to blame really.
 What I think is buy an acoustic guitar is more difficult than an electric guitar because you have to take into account neck
 resets ,bracing ,bridges pulling forwards. tops bellying. A lot of things that you won't find out until you get a problem.
 Watch the Lee Anderton experience with his Martin guitar !
 There are so many reasonably priced acoustics out there to choose from so I would rather buy a new guitar .
 Problems can go the other way of course I bought a K.Yairi GW1100 in 1995 and It sounded great still does it Brazilian
 Rosewood still sounds great but couldn't get a realistic price if I wanted to sell it ! Oh Well !